The "Eywa" Theory

[JamesCameronBlogspot]

If Eywa is just a biological network, why does Grace say "She's real"?

Grace already knew that the physical network was real, if, when connected to Eywa, she had merely realized that her theory was correct, I don't think she would have had that strong of a reaction.

Grace had never been to the Tree of Souls and witnessed Eywa jack into the Na'vis' queues, she'd (probably) never seen any display of intelligence like the woodsprites performed for Neytiri regarding Jake, and she'd definitely never wrapped her queue around the Tree of Voices and heard the voices of ghosts. So that's why her belief was tepid: she hadn't had the same caliber of exposure as the Na'vi did. So, for her, there obviously was a strong element of "faith" involved, much more than for the Na'vi. When Eywa extracted her consciousness, it must've been really vindicating for her as a scientist....maybe it felt for her like when somebody with a strong faith in God here dies and goes to Heaven! But, again, the Na'vi have a much stronger interaction with Eywa, so there's no element of faith regarding Eywa's existence for them like there is for us about God's existence.

[neytirifanboy]

Now on to Eywa. There are a few key differences between my faith and Eywa. I do not believe that this force is a sentient being..it does not think it just exists. I do not refer to it as a "goddess" or personify it in any way. My idea of "god" is not some all knowing entity that intervenes in my life..it simply IS.

In principle, my view is view at the highest level is same as what you say above. The main difference is that I tend to believe in the idea of levels of spirituality which you can influence.

So on that basis, Eywa would be somewhere below and part of the Universal Goddess that effectively ignores the existence of individual living things (because we are too small for it to perceive). Unlike the greater force, Eywa is able to perceive and act, but only in it's direct area of influence; i.e. Pandora.

On this basis, I would see Eywa as a Demi-Goddess of Pandora, which is ultimately subservient to the Univeral greater power.

On the other hand, Eywa could just be a giant brain.

However, when it comes to things like reincarnation, I am much more agnostic. It is difficult to know what the Woodsprites actually are. Are the the souls of the dead, are they some sort of recording of the consciousness of the dead (like ghosts), or are they actually just separate entities which are influenced by Eywa? That I am not sure.

[Woodsprite]

Let me ask this: Does anybody dispute that, at least on a literal level, Eywa is NOT a deity? That she is a provable, concrete organism (or meta-organism)?

Because, although the movie very much treats her like a deity and the screenplay invokes religious imagery, I think that the critical difference - something which requires faith vs. something that's tangible and demonstrative - is very critical and, I think, could be the starting off point for some useful analysis and reflection on the part of believers (of which I am one).

This was my point when starting this, that Eywa is argueably just a physical entity rather than a spiritual force. Though she can be seen that way by anyone who wishes to, it's also perfectly reasonable to believe she's just a natural being, not supernatural (what I believe). Even the Avatar: A Confidential Report... book she's described as only occupying the realm of the natural; she cannot bend the laws of nature like a real god/goddess figure could.

Though neytirifanboy does present a very important point with the woodsprite phenomenon. Yes, they could each individually have a conscious nature, but then there's the problem of when they're laid to rest with the dead they bury; why would they allow themselves to die? But then, if they're spiritual do they sacrifice themselves for the greater good of Eywa? That's one of the nagging problems that I can't answer in my theory.

I explained before that they might've just landed on Jake because he was in wide-enough space for them to settle, and because their individual "mindsets" recognized Jake as an avatar... But then I watched the movie again and noticed the ending where there are many, many Na'vi sitting all around Jake at the Tree of Souls (ToS) including Neytiri and Mo'at, and recounting the fact that the ToS was in a cliffed-in area (not wide, open space). And yet, there were at least 20 or so woodsprites settling across Jake's real body, and then actually moving to his avatar when his consciousness was being transferred. In this respect, I made a big error in my first post in my assumptions about the woodsprites.

[Serena]

I pretty much agree with Woodsprite here.

The fact that Eywa is called a goddess may actually just be a human thing, simply because we don't have a better word for it. And it also raises the question how a god / goddess is actually defined. I'm not talking about the christian (or whatever religion you prefer) viewpoint here. Just simply what is a god. I would call myself an agnostic. That pretty much means either I believe in nothing or I'm open to everything (depending on your own viewpoint).
To me a god is a superior being. It doesn't really matter if this god is limited to one planet or not. Eywa is superior to the Na'vi simply by brainpower and her ability to communicate with all animals on Pandora even if they're not physically linked at this moment. The Na'vi may have a permanent connection with Eywa, but may be not aware of it unless they connect to one of the Soultrees. Or to say it in a computerized way: A wireless connection is slower than a Cat7 cable

So if one tries to define a god/goddess in a scientific way, Eywa definitely falls in this cathegory.
We know very little how the Na'vi actually see Eywa and (again) how we would actually describe/translate that.

This continues with most other events in the movie. If you see the mind/consciousness/soul of a being as a result of the neuronal network of our brain then it could be that the essence of that is "downloaded" to the Eywa network, same with the memories. That's why the Na'vi are able to hear the voices of the dead. All those are just the memory Eywa has.
It's then quite safe to say (simply by brainpower) that Eywa is a sentient being/entity with a consciousness. That explains to me why the soultransfer worked with Jake, but not with Grace. For Grace the Na'vi body was never much more than just a tool to study Pandora. The communication between Grace and Eywa might have been incredibly fast, because no word had to be said, so it might actually be that it was Grace's decision not the be transfered into the Na'vi body.
Jake was a Na'vi quite early in the movie already. To him the human body was not much more than just a tool.

Grace "seeing" Eywa might have just been the human brain interpreting information. All sensoric information is interpreted by the brain, so being directly connected to another being with even more brainpower might lead to a quite vivid picture.
Jake's "prayer" being answered could simply mean that Eywa was not even aware of the danger until then. If all the trees/plants on Pandora are the brain of Eywa, a few dying trees are not more than a few dying braincells. Humans lose a few hundred (thousand?) every day and we are definitely not aware of it.
The woodsprites (those are these whity floaty thingies, right?) may be Eywa's way to communicate and at the same time her eyes.

Risky idea: Could there exist a similar network on Earth? Maybe not the plants, but static electricity in the atmosphere? Quite implausible, but not impossible


So to me Eywa is a physical being and by my definition a goddess in relation to the Na'vi at the same time. It simply depends on the point of view (in my opinion) ^^

Sorry, if some of the words seem a bit off, but I'm from the germany, so I've only seen the german version of Avatar so far.

[HufweMakto]

But let's be clear, I'm not arguing that Eywa isn't intended to be an analog for human religion. In fact, the screenplay for Avatar is overt and explicit for the analogy. Hometree is described as, "HOMETREE, like a gothic cathedral overhead. Sunlight streams down through gaps in the towering vault." And the Tree of Souls is described with similarly religious imagery: "AT THE BOTTON, in a natural amphitheater, the Omaticaya refugees are clustered around a central rock outcropping which forms a kind of dais or altar."

Cameron was hinting at something with this in the way he worded the Tree of Souls scenes in the script and scriptment. The words "catherdral" and "altar" when talking about it.

I also find it interesting when regarding the Tree Sprites apparent intelligence when regarding how they react around Jake (landing on him, stopping Neytiri from killing him, etc), it's a rather interesting note to that to heart that Neytiri calls them "pure spirits" at one point. We see them being used in the burial of dead clan members, and landing around Jake as he's being transfered into his Avatar body for good. There's something more about the Tree of Souls and the Tree Sprites than what's been shown in the film. I wish Cameron would hurry up and write that book so we could get some more insight in the whole Tree of Souls/Tree Sprites thing.

[zyymurgy]

What I gathered from the movie is this:

The Trees of Voices are like neurons in our brain, connecting all together at the roots, creating the mind of Eywa. Everything is part of her brain, or her body at least. I think the Trees of Voices (and of Souls) are supposed to be like huge queues for Eywa - think about it. The tendrils in the queue look suspiciously like the tendrils of the Sacred Trees.

[HufweMakto]

What I gathered from the movie is this:

The Trees of Voices are like neurons in our brain, connecting all together at the roots, creating the mind of Eywa. Everything is part of her brain, or her body at least. I think the Trees of Voices (and of Souls) are supposed to be like huge queues for Eywa - think about it. The tendrils in the queue look suspiciously like the tendrils of the Sacred Trees.

Now that I'm thinking, would the bulldozing of the Tree of Voices be equivilent of "killing brain cells"? Because that's a terrifying thought when you start equivilenting Eywa to a "big brain".

[JamesCameronBlogspot]

I explained before that they might've just landed on Jake because he was in wide-enough space for them to settle, and because their individual "mindsets" recognized Jake as an avatar... But then I watched the movie again and noticed the ending where there are many, many Na'vi sitting all around Jake at the Tree of Souls (ToS) including Neytiri and Mo'at, and recounting the fact that the ToS was in a cliffed-in area (not wide, open space). And yet, there were at least 20 or so woodsprites settling across Jake's real body, and then actually moving to his avatar when his consciousness was being transferred. In this respect, I made a big error in my first post in my assumptions about the woodsprites.

I'm surprised that anybody would not infer the woodsprites' actions to be anything besides actions with intent. I mean, just the way the scene was presented in the language of film it was pretty darn obvious, but then when Neytiri is able to get a pack of (apparently) bloodthirsty hunters to back off simply by saying that there was a "sign", I mean, that's pretty basic stuff, in my opinion.

And then, yeah, in the closing "soul transfer" scene and some of the other factoids you mentioned, it's pretty much indisputable that, however the woodsprites work at a physiological level, they were clearly acting with intent.

[Woodsprite]

Now that I'm thinking, would the bulldozing of the Tree of Voices be equivilent of "killing brain cells"? Because that's a terrifying thought when you start equivilenting Eywa to a "big brain".

Probably. Thing is, the Trees of Voices (notice the plural) wasn't a unique location like the Tree of Souls (ToS) was. Grace implied there being various locations of these groups of trees where the Na'vi could upload and download information, i.e. her line to Selfridge, "Sites like the one you just destroyed." Destroying those trees would be like killing brain cells (great analogy!) because brain cells can be destroyed without harming the host.

The ToS is probably like the brain stem, because it is never implied that there is more than one of these remarkable trees on Pandora, and everyone in the film regarded the destruction of ToS as a severing of the Na'vi's direct line to their ancestors.

[JamesCameronBlogspot]

....The ToS is probably like the brain stem, because it is never implied that there is more than one of these remarkable trees on Pandora, and everyone in the film regarded the destruction of ToS as a severing of the Na'vi's direct line to their ancestors.

I think that it actually is implied that there is more than one because, like you said here, Grace says "sites like the one you just destroyed" (note the plural), she says the "Na'vi can access it" (not just the Omaticaya) and that it's a "global network". So, just logically, there are obviously Na'vi clans all over Pandora, and they all have to have their own communication lines to Eywa, so presumably there are other radiant willows like the Tree of Souls.

(One side note: I grabbed my copy of 'Avatar: An Activist Survival Guide' to check my thoughts out....and I couldn't find any references at all. Not even in the section on the queues. Unless I'm just missing it, does anybody know why that might be?