Who believes the earth was once Pandora?

[Ximphron]

Interesting how this has gone from "was Earth once Pandora" to "could earth become Pandora".

[DeMouse]

Currently, there are two major theories about the universe's final fate:

- the big crunch theory based on reversed expansion (Big Crunch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
- the big rip theory based on continuing acceleration of expansion till the atoms gets torn apart (Big Rip - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) - both even readable on wiki.

Would you please post us a link of your 'heat-death' theory?

Heat death of the universe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Baisically it is not an actual end but simply the concept that after enough time energy will be too diffuse for matter to conitinue to do phisical work as entropy approaches its maximum.

We could find fossils on Earth which date more than 400 million years back. I am absolutely sure that none of any man made structures will ever last that long. =)

Because I got a basic idea on how gravitation works, I know there is no artificial object like a satellite around any planet or moon which would have a 100% stable orbit if it floats uncontrolled (without corrective thruster burns). The reason: gravitation! All celestial objects have their own gravitation pull, so any satellite in orbit (regardless on how high the orbit is) is subjected to several gravitational vectors and therefore have to burn it's thrusters time to time to keep it's orbit stable. A satellite in a very high orbit would be eventually pulled away from Earth by time. Moon is a prominent example and here we're talking about massive natural celestial bodies! However, even the moon will be released of Earth's relative gravity pull at one day!

Yes and so will our sattelites but it will be after a massive ammount of time, similar to the moon pulling away. Probably longer is some cases as their orbits are specifically calculated to make them as stable as possible.

As you can find on wiki as well, there are several different types of energy classified.

Energy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bioenergetics is one kind of energy and describes the flow of Energy through a living organism

Bioenergetics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Journal of Bioenergetics and Biomembranes
Bioenergetics: Open Access

remark: that is all based on a mere 200 years of 'modern science' and we're just at the beginning to explore 'energy'.

Looking forward to your scientifical conclusion/antithesis with bibliographic references.

Don't need to. Your own links explain what I mean as mcuh as is necessary. Bioenergetics refers to chemical, mechanical and thermal enery. Not electromagnetic as would be implied by a being made out of "pure energy".

Energy is defined by its ability to influence matter so a being would have to consist of at least partially matter in order to be able to really exist at all because energy doesn't really exist unless it is affecting that matter.

Really though matter is simply a form of energy so we are already made out of pure energy.

['upxare]

Heat death of the universe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Baisically it is not an actual end but simply the concept that after enough time energy will be too diffuse for matter to conitinue to do phisical work as entropy approaches its maximum.




Yes and so will our sattelites but it will be after a massive ammount of time, similar to the moon pulling away. Probably longer is some cases as their orbits are specifically calculated to make them as stable as possible.




Don't need to. Your own links explain what I mean as mcuh as is necessary. Bioenergetics refers to chemical, mechanical and thermal enery. Not electromagnetic as would be implied by a being made out of "pure energy".

Energy is defined by its ability to influence matter so a being would have to consist of at least partially matter in order to be able to really exist at all because energy doesn't really exist unless it is affecting that matter.

Really though matter is simply a form of energy so we are already made out of pure energy.

Now I don't wonder why I had to ask for the URL for the "Heat Death Theory". It has been originated during the mid 19th century, when human understanding of the mechanics of the universe were - frankly said - in their very basics. A "Heat Death" scenario, if ever happen, would take place in 10 to the 150 years, way after the postulated big rip or big crunch, not only because of the cooling curve. And what sense does it make to talk about the universe's fate after it's atoms are already ripped apart? The cooling curve in the universe has been stagnating since 380 000 years after the big bang and still stays at 2,72K. It is actually uncertain if it would and will ever cool down to 0K. It is also yet uncertain, if the density of the universe will lead to a recollapse or continuous expansion and measurements suggest that the density is very close to the critical value between recollapse and continuous expansion. In this equation, we haven't yet even included the effect of Dark Matter and Dark Energy, which makes up the vast majority of the universe's mass. As you see, we got several variables in our equation, which is no wonder considering the matter of fact that we humans are just doing modern science for max 200 years. 200 years for an emerging species to discuss the Universe. It sounds actually supercilious and arrogant. As I said, we are just at the very beginning to learn and understand about the Universe.

Again, no satellite can be kept in such a stable orbit without any thruster burn that it lasts there for millions or even billions of years, not even if it's positioned in a current Lagrangian point as celestial bodies are in a constant move. Ask NASA, ESA or any other spacefaring agency or corporation.

I suggest you read the articles regarding energy (again). Again, there are many forms of energy (mentioned in the articles) and some we even don't yet know as our understanding of nature and the universe is still in it's early stage. Currently, it is thought that mainly biochemical energy keeps our bodies alive but yet, it can be hardly measured in it's full extension. Please note that all Earth lifeforms are based on a time span of one billion years of multicellular life, a time span which is still relatively short compared to the age (and therefore time spans of possible life) on other, already detected planets, which are partly in the habitable zones of stars which are older than the one of our sun. And we still got another at least two billion years on Earth before the radiation of the sun starts to be life-threatening on Earth. Two billion(!) years in which evolution can and will go ways we can't yet imagine. To conclude after that relative short time-span of Earth's evolution that we're the crown of universals evolution and no energy lifeforms exist, sounds somewhat more than arrogant.

[Sanjwale]

Interesting how this has gone from "was Earth once Pandora" to "could earth become Pandora".

probably becuase if it could become pandora. there is a high change that it was a kind of pandora.

[Ximphron]

probably becuase if it could become pandora. there is a high change that it was a kind of pandora.

What defines Pandora?

Megafauna? Earth had that, back when this place was super oxengenized and hot. (The most Randora-y time).
Worldwide jungle? Earth had something like that, but not exactly in the Pandoran sense.
Worldwide neural network? Nope.
Widespread terrestrial bioluminescense? Not that we can tell.
Giant flying beasties? Not that you can ride.
Abundance of food sources? Nope.

The most "Pandoran" time here is the Jurassic.
Earth has throughout most of it's history been a less fertile, colder, harsher place however.

But of course Pandora will always remind of us Earth, after all everything on Pandora is inspired by our own planet.

['upxare]

What defines Pandora?

Megafauna? Earth had that, back when this place was super oxengenized and hot. (The most Randora-y time).
Worldwide jungle? Earth had something like that, but not exactly in the Pandoran sense.
Worldwide neural network? Nope.
Widespread terrestrial bioluminescense? Not that we can tell.
Giant flying beasties? Not that you can ride.
Abundance of food sources? Nope.

The most "Pandoran" time here is the Jurassic.
Earth has throughout most of it's history been a less fertile, colder, harsher place however.

But of course Pandora will always remind of us Earth, after all everything on Pandora is inspired by our own planet.

Earth has been so far never been like Pandora and would be only, if life and ecology has some hundred millions year time to advance without a major asteroid impact.

By the way, it's not for sure that Pandora is an all-jungle world. The Omaticaya live on 32°N, quite close to the equator. Pandora may still have pol caps and a temperate climate zone with chilly winters.

[Porthos1]

^ Agree. When Toruk Makto visits the Horse Clans "of the plains," that was open grass lands. The scene visiting the Ikran People did not show a vast jungle behind Toruk.

[Sanjwale]

What defines Pandora?

Megafauna? Earth had that, back when this place was super oxengenized and hot. (The most Randora-y time).
Worldwide jungle? Earth had something like that, but not exactly in the Pandoran sense.
Worldwide neural network? Nope.
Widespread terrestrial bioluminescense? Not that we can tell.
Giant flying beasties? Not that you can ride.
Abundance of food sources? Nope.

The most "Pandoran" time here is the Jurassic.
Earth has throughout most of it's history been a less fertile, colder, harsher place however.

But of course Pandora will always remind of us Earth, after all everything on Pandora is inspired by our own planet.

A nice healthy earth. I hope that is enough to say? nice clean forrets. where it isn't unhealthy to walk outside.

[DeMouse]

A nice healthy earth. I hope that is enough to say? nice clean forrets. where it isn't unhealthy to walk outside.

The forests we have a still pretty clean and the air is only toxic at specific times in specific places. Actually the whole smog issue has been lessening in recent years in all of the old hotspots.

[Ximphron]

I see. I haven't seen the movie since it was in theaters so I forget things like that.
But as you can see in this:
Pandora's just about all green, no white (except clouds) or tan visible.
compare to Earth:




The forests here are nice and clean and it's perfectly healthy to walk around outside. But I've lived my entire life around here so I don't know too much about how things are in Europe or Asia or wherever. I visited Ireland and they didn't seem to even have any trees left.