I felt like I lived on Pandora before(Smell,Taste).. Any help?

[Txontirea]

I had the same dream, sort of. It was like at the end of the film, when Jake's being transferred forever into his Na'vi. I was stood at the foot of the Tree Of Souls, and everything was glowing. I fell backwards, into a Na'vi and was transformed into a na'vi. Hmm. It was awesome.

[Jean-Joey]

Hallo!
Aurora.., sorry again for the absence. Hope everything is fine with you

Aurora.., you said:

Regarding people who talk about past lives and remembering them or reporting to have seen ghosts of recently deceased - I get a bit taken back from giving them any credit because quite a few of them that I know additionally have rather weird opinions on other topics, too. One is living in my house, he reports of having memories from a past life. He also believes in homeopathy, government conspiracies and U.S. vacuum bombs causing earthquakes in Haiti and Chile. Others maybe add aliens, the hollow-earth-theory or secret antigravity experiments and timetravel to the list. And this kind of combination makes me question the whole package, if you understand my point.

Why we take this as a "Package"?? Let him believe in what he wants and you believe in what you like. some stuff you mentioned are nonsense. others arent. choose what u want to "think about" or "believe". you shouldnt accept or refuse the "Whole Package"..

I admit, there are sometimes weird things happening that I can only explain by pure chance or wishful thinking

Yes. but not all are pure chance or wishful thinking. Wanna hear something weird?? Me, my father and my sister are all born in the same day (March 23rd). we kinda have a mental link between us. we feel each other and many times we laugh on an idea on the other's mind, because we thought about it in the same time. also can work harmonically with each other..etc..
Even when we're physically away from each other, we still connected.
So, these weird things exists. maybe its weird because in our society we're not used to it anymore. that's why it looks weird. but for others, its a standard.

PS: in your link, about the avatar concept. why the rest of the hindu Gods, away from Shiva are blue skinned? with hexapods? 4 hands w/ 2 legs???

Blue skin is an interesting thing - I found out about the symbolism of this. It used to be a symbol for poison. Poisoned people were painted in blue

Yes, that's true and i knew this. i read also that the royal blue blood describe the royal families were they all kill each other with poison. but i guess their veins/Arteries were blue due to high toxicity(someone told me that). but why in ancient egypt there was scripts for the Green Osiris? also i cant remember where i read a side note about the "blue of death" and the great blue gods. in the early pharaohs families (2nd&3rd family when the pyramids were built).

So albeit there is no solid scientific evidence for either of these impacts, I think it is likely that earth was hit by some things out of space several times while humans were around and I hold it possible that the memory of such an incredible world-shattering event would continue to live on in stories told for generations.

Maybe, who knows?? The most acceptable reason behind the extinct of Dinosaurs is a big comet who hit earth and caused what's so-called armagheddon.
But it pops in my mind the pic of Men(and emphasize on it) in a space-suit like costume, drawn by our old ancestors.
My idea till now is that there is many things hidden in our history. The man's time on earth is too short( respectively with the universe time). so, who knows? maybe we had an advanced "Men" who survived a flood(Bible) or global catastrophe.. letting us, the new kind who has to re-build the earth.
Note that in many Myths/religions around the globe there is stories about floods/mass destructions/ armagheddon(s) happened "in the old times" even in Asian religions. i dont remember the exact estimated times for these accidents, but i guess its 5 or maybe 6 times the earth was "formatted" and "re-installed" again. (in CS terms.. )

About what you said, that ppl in stressful times wants to detach from that world

One topic that keeps popping up though is that many of the experiences people share seem to involve two things: A rather stressful or hard time and the wish to get away from it. Under these circumstances, the "way out" for our minds seems to be similarly manifested in many, involving portals, distant and profoundly different worlds, alien beeings, flying/floating beeings or things, a sense of freedom but also detachment from the world we currently live in.

is a smart note/conclusion... we need to think about it.

maybe it is because there is some supernatural explanation, maybe it is just how we perceive ourselves because of our consciousness is only aware of a small part of what is going on with our bodies and the world around us and we feel, that we cannot see everything, so there has to be "more".

?? I may need some explanation please?

About the mountain tops. its just a try to find a reason why this is so familiar with many ppl around the Globe. if we take extraordinary explanations we'll find an infinity of probabilities...
At last, everything is yours to decide..

Greetings Aurora.., hope everything is OK with you..
Oel ngati kameie..
Jean

[Jean-Joey]

Heey.., Seems lot of things happened when I was absent! Many interesting replies full of mind-triggering details! :D
Well.., lets go to the point:

Respectfully, the brain does not generate consciousness. Consciousness uses the brain as an interface into the 3-d material world. VERY MUCH like the process of linking in the movie.

@ Seamus.. just a side note: what you mentioned here is somehow like the Matrix idea. Believe me, CG if rightly connected to the brain, can do such a thing and more!! its you who can control the world and break its rules(high jump/flying/defying gravity..etc) but this is OT,So Halt!

The idea of being using our brains as controllable things from the outside seems creepy. the creepier thing is that's mentioned, even indirectly through ancient myths and religions. Aurora's link is a good example for it..
Your vision is unique. as i know. you're the 1st person who ever told me about something like this.. i never read/heard about it before/

Well, away of this. I do "think" ( and dont wanna say believe) that our consciousness is somehow separated or not"fully" bounded by our bodies. and this varies from each one. call in Consciences or Soul- Naming is not the issue- but recall the coma status, and ppl who were once sane and lost their mind due to an accident or violent psychological impact. Where their consciousness is?? where did it go?

This doesnt mean by default that we're being used/controlled by another beings. Yet this may Point to the separation process of the one's consciousness from his body.

Again, your theory is worth thinking about.

@First step is to see the beauty:

My theory- maybe we as humans have deeply embedded memories of our origins, from the time our planet was as entirely natural as Pandora, and when we lived as primitively as the Navis. Maybe films like this one bring these memories to a level of consciousness, for us to access like you have.

Honestly talking, in the first time, i though this is the case here. but, by remembering the way i recall memories, this time is so different than any other case happened with me (as i mentioned before).
Still, I kept this Idea as a Major One in the explanation for this memories "from a rational Point of view"
as this theory may explain the earthly related-things. but not for the Alien parts(Skies, the way they live.., etc..)

For the Ayahuasca planet.. can you please tell us (me included) more about it, more experience from trusted people you know?
I feel tempted too to try it, but its illegal too. I just believe that, by unlocking my(our) minds seals, we'll face the "Incredible reality". whatever it may be.

I'm really happy to know you. wish you share more experiences with us.

- Continuing in the next reply -

[Jean-Joey]

@ seamus:
Then please explain for me the universal nature of the experiences had while people are under the influence of elevated levels of Dimethyl-tryptamine. It is endogenous in the brain, yet, when we are exposed to elevated levels of it, we humans ALL receive a reality transplant of the highest order.

Under this link you'll find this:

it can produce powerful entheogenic experiences including true hallucinations (perceived extensions of reality)[...]
Induced DMT experiences can include profound time-dilation, time travel, journeys to paranormal realms, and encounters with spiritual beings or other mystical/trans-dimensional modalities that, by most first hand accounts, defy verbal or visual description.[...]

My opinion? This Thing Must Be Scientifically Studied!!! does it reveal our mind's seals? or its just hallucination?

Most of your reply is OK, but i have few comments.
I agree that myths have truth inside it. but also not all of them. if so, how we explain the minotaur legend?? a genetically experience, made by Aliens to combine human and Taurus genes??? what about the cyclops??

The fact you're talking about( which is that world isnt "exactly" real but its more to an illusion..) is that's what you wanna say? in this quote?

but the greater truth that all places are essentially one and that space is an illusion created for the convenience and benefit of Someone, is not addressed in your statement! I do not think I am in another "place" in the 3-dimiensional sense. I exist, in one sense, outside of time (which only exists to keep everything from happening all at once) and space (an illusion exposed by quantum physics). In another sense I am bound within both. It is the technology of the genetic portal that allows a being who is native to one realm to travel to another and experience the richness of that other realm with a fully convincing experiential process.

truly hard to believe.. do you have some solid or even semi-solid facts?
( I already know our mind just "receive" what is sent to it. i mean, i see something in red because it reflect the red's color frequency, if i had a device that can change it's frequency, i can say it with different color.)

BTW, i read about a military experiment that covers a car with a plymeric (or poly-something) matter that can be electrically trigged to it changes its color from white to black
the link below isnt what i read the news from, cuz it was years ago. but its just to illustrate the idea:
Color-Changing Auto Paint by Nissan | Jamaipanese

@ Aurora.. your scientifically part is solid(cohesive). but, i dunno, is that's right to combine extraordinary/supernatural phenomena with already defined science? or should us derive a new method to understand these global experiences?
My Opinion is its not necessary to try something to believe in it. if someone doesnt believe in death, should we kill him in order to force him to beleive?? :D LOL! No!
But the fewest thing we can do is to perceive a minimum threshold of reasoning, makes us able ( not to 100% believe in something) but ( Somehow we think this maybe exist). but not total refusal..

I Guess we should make a discussion about this.

All your posts are interesting.. truly.. i cant stop my mind from thinking in your awesome comments. but its already late.
Wish you all best of luck..
Oel ngati kameie..

Greetings..,
Jean

[Seamus]

That is interesting indeed. It is basically very much something in the vicinity of what we were discussing here with many people sharing the same kind of dreamscapes or drug-induced visions or emotions regarding paintings or movies like Avatar. I cannot say I know how this comes by but I guess a physical similarity in the brain as you mentioned could possibly be a connection.

If it is as "science" dictates, an organic, genetic connection is the only one possible.

If and why it is there certainly is not known. What I know is, that the evolution of the human mind favoured those who can dream and envision things that are not there in the physical world we perceive and even react to these things in advance.

for a scientific type, you sure do believe in a lot of mysterious things In my world-view, extra-sensory perception is not a mystery. It's a simple function of the way the world has been constructed. Are you aware of Nassim Haramein's work on the Holographic Universe model? There are a series of videos on Youtube by him. He's a hard-core math guy, so everything technical he says goes over my head, but he breaks it down well enough for most laypeople to get the gist.

In fact we probably are one of the few beeings on the plant that can "make things up" and act as if they were real. It is why we can make plans, have empathic feelings for others and make advanced tools. We do not see only a tree, but we see the wood we could use to make a bow and the flaws that would prevent us from doing so, we can imagine how good the result will be and only then take a decision. Our minds and brains are bigger and consume more energy but the benefit is this abstraction we can do. It is very well worth spending time and energy.
The drug you mentioned - I do not know what visions it brings about that are similar in all cultures, I'd be interested to hear more about it.

it's not properly a drug. It's produced in the brain and in many plants. You can elevate the level of it in your brain with injections or smoking it, or drinking the famous Ayahuasca, which gives the visions a distinctly different character from the pure DMT experience. Dr. Rick Strassman has done the only work on it in the last 40 years, because he got a special exemption from the US government to do research on it. It is highly illegal here in the USA. (Yes, that means everyone is holding an illegal drug in their brains, stupid government!)

I cannot say I have experience with these kind of drugs. I am tempted, but it is illegal here. Also I know some people reporting rather unpleasant experiences and after effects with psychedelic drugs. So I cannot testimony against what I do not experience, just that up to now there has not been any scientific evidence for anything like an alternate reality or reincarnation.

except the (suppressed) research done with DMT back in the 1960s. the 'alternate reality' that emerged was similar between people from different cultures and races, which seems to indicate that there is something transcendent happening. (i'm sorry i don't currently have references for this, but if you like, we can take it to PM and get further into it there.)

Yes, I see. I know of the concept of Maya in hinduism also, the idea, that all physical world is an illusion we create ourselves (with us beeing outside the physical realm). I did not adress this as I did not really connect it to the topic at first, but the way you put it, it is part of the same story.

indeed, except the way I see it is not the orthodox "maya" way. I see us as performers in a play, and that play is being watched by some who are actually outside the illusion. I have memories of past lifetimes, and of experience between lifetimes, so I have incorporated that information into the way I look at the world.

Ok, take the word "supernatural" not as literal, just take it as a description of things we cannot be sure in a traditional way (like seeing or touching them while our mind is in its natural state) that they exist.

Oh, But I am sure, that's just it. If you and I were to be in the same room together, the infrared photons emitting from my body would be absorbed by your body, and vice versa. In a very real way, we are one organism. We just haven't seen it that way yet.

Things, one has to believe in (be it by personal experience or by believing the reports of others). I personally have never experienced telekinesis and nobody can show me a convincing video or live performance, so I do not believe it. (That is just an example)

me neither. I dont' believe in it or disbelieve. I am open to being shown one way or the other. But honestly I think that kind of power belongs to time/space (the dream world) rather than space/time (the world we inhabit while not sleeping). I have both flown and used telekinesis in my dreams, and there is a distinct feeling associated with each. I have done neither in my waking life.

while this indeed could be read as "there is more to the universe than what we can see" in a metaphysical way, you can also read it in a more down-to-earth way. Our consciousness (as often quoted with that 10%-theory) is occupying only a small portion of our brain. We do not think consciously of every move we make and things like emotions leap at us without conscious desire do to so. I can type these words by thinking them and my hands will type the word without me having to think "press this key". And finally of course, we truely do not see everything. We are amazed at pictures taking in the infrared or UV or listening to sounds at frequencies below our hearing threshold. So indeed there are many many things, our consciousness does not think about, but it does not neccesarily have to be a metaphysically different world. (I cannot rule out any metaphysical or "supernatural" explanations of course, since they are not falsifiable theories but in their very own nature concepts that have to be believed)

That's the great thing about it. What is, is, and really, our beliefs about it have no effect on what is. Either there is someone alive today who can do telekinesis, or there is not. You and I not believing in it have nothing to do with the fact. The beauty of science is in discovery. Too often, I am sure you would agree, the discoveries are used to harmful ends. But to those who are determined to make no victims using their discoveries, more discoveries await.

Regards,
S

[AuroraGlacialis]

Gee - this thread gets quite fragmented. I have to reply to the last two posts seperately or it would be a huge one

Let him believe in what he wants and you believe in what you like. some stuff you mentioned are nonsense. others arent. choose what u want to "think about" or "believe". you shouldnt accept or refuse the "Whole Package"..

I think it is because it is "sold" as a package. And since there is no scientific evidence for any of them, I am reluctant to division them in two categories.

Even when we're physically away from each other, we still connected.
So, these weird things exists. maybe its weird because in our society we're not used to it anymore. that's why it looks weird. but for others, its a standard.

That sounds quite interesting. I cannot say, I have a connection like this.

PS: in your link, about the avatar concept. why the rest of the hindu Gods, away from Shiva are blue skinned? with hexapods? 4 hands w/ 2 legs???

Yes, that is a good one - I really do not know for sure, it is very common in hinduism obviously and I personally think, Cameron took this into account when he made the movie (or was inspired by hindusim, just like "The Matrix" was (read up on "Maya" in hinduism))

but why in ancient egypt there was scripts for the Green Osiris? also i cant remember where i read a side note about the "blue of death" and the great blue gods. in the early pharaohs families (2nd&3rd family when the pyramids were built).

well - green is not blue and the "blue of death" as well as the poison story is probably related to dead people becoming blue/grey under certain circumstances. The blue gods are interesting however. I have not heard of that before.

But it pops in my mind the pic of Men(and emphasize on it) in a space-suit like costume, drawn by our old ancestors.
[...]
Note that in many Myths/religions around the globe there is stories about floods/mass destructions/ armagheddon(s) happened "in the old times" even in Asian religions. i dont remember the exact estimated times for these accidents, but i guess its 5 or maybe 6 times the earth was "formatted" and "re-installed" again. (in CS terms.. )

Well - the "men in spacesuits" look strange, I have to admit. I would like to hear, what other theories are around regarding these. There may be other explanations. Not that it would be any less weird, but you could get a similar picture by drawing people in diving gear - so there may also be other explanations than spacesuits or diving gear that could explain this.

About the armagheddon: Here is a [ame="http://www.amazon.de/Sintflut-doch-Mythos-historischen-Wahrheit/dp/342677139X"]book[/ame] I have once read about that. It has an intriguing theory in it that explains the worldwide common creation and armagheddon myths as well as some other myths associated with the sky and the sea. It is scientifically not very well accepted, but it does also not feel the need for paranormal or alien influences.

maybe it is because there is some supernatural explanation, maybe it is just how we perceive ourselves because of our consciousness is only aware of a small part of what is going on with our bodies and the world around us and we feel, that we cannot see everything, so there has to be "more".

?? I may need some explanation please?

Ok, this one was a bit far fetched. What I meant was, that a lot of our thinking and a lot of reactions and tasks our bodies do are not consciously controlled. We may "start the task" and then do other things. Like drawing on a paper while telephoning or driving a car while talking on the phone or simple tasks like walking or repetitive tasks in production jobs. Only if something goes wrong, our conscious mind takes over to correct or revise. Since we are not aware of these things, we get the feeling, that there is more going on "inside us" than we perceive and this gives rise to many feelings with different conclusions (like the notion that we are somehow just Avatars our selves)

Still, I kept this Idea as a Major One in the explanation for this memories "from a rational Point of view"
as this theory may explain the earthly related-things. but not for the Alien parts(Skies, the way they live.., etc..)

The way they live, the connection to nature and a "mother earth" (probably the oldest religion ever) - maybe, the alien skies & plants not so much...

For the Ayahuasca plant.. can you please tell us (me included) more about it, more experience from trusted people you know?
I feel tempted too to try it, but its illegal too.

I don't want to be too much a hippy now, but I think it is not a good thing, that plants are illegal. This just tends to get out of hand and people these days take (legal an illegal) drugs for fun and excitement and to work better and faster or to forget things. If you go about it with curiousity, caution and respect, I doubt they will do any harm. And psychedelic drugs are not known to make you an addict like cigarettes do. But I do not want to encourage anyone here - at least not in countries which forbid these experiences by law. That guy at google tech talk, I mentioned somewhere before (youtube.com/watch?v=xpvoV6BKxis) seems to have tried the "vine of souls" and/or other "sacramental plants" (quote) himself, so unless he did something illegal, there are countries which are not so restictive.

[Jean-Joey]

Hey! Long time no see..!
I missed this thread! Unfortunately I couldnt use my laptop until yesterday night because of damned Microsoft! the Windows crashed without any explainable reason! and I could easily lose everything.
But thanks to Linux and Ubuntu, I used the Live CD to rescue my most valuable stuff! And I'm thinking to switch to it or use a dual-boot. its more secure actually!
Back on Topic!

The last reply from Aurora sticked too much to science, the way i dont have much to say. For me, the main idea of the science is to know how things works. and to know new informations about things we thought we knew everything about it!
Discovery! is the name of the game here.

This wont happen if we sticked of what we already know. we have to push the envelope and advance our knowledge to include things we thought intuitive ( or normal ) for us.
That's what Copernicus( Kopernikus ) did. He encountered people, arguing him for religious or any other reason. but the "true" science showed us he's right..

My goal is to quest the truth. accepting anything shows in our way to seek it. without getting closed inside the box.

Another thing, i dont want this thread to be dead! we need to know and listen to the other's opinions..
to let us share more experiences with each other..

C'mon people!!

[AuroraGlacialis]

Hi, @Seamus. Sorry it took me so long to reply, I have some rather disturbin issues going on at home these days, so bear with me.

I will not quote your post, as it really gets hard to read that way, but I will adress the topics of it.

Indeed, I have not heard of Nassim Haramein before. I looked up on youtube and found nothing on a holohgraphic universe though, but some videos of this person. I will take a look later.

I uderstand, that DMT is not a drug in the sense of a addictive substance, as it appears to be present in the human body (actually quite a few "drugs" are at least very similar to substances present in the human body). The Ayahuasca plant sounds quite interesting as it elevates the levels of this substance in the brain and by doing so seems to induce a state that the brain itself would be capable of anyways. maybe this is why people also can get similar effects by ritualistic dancing or fasting? It is very fascinating, that the experiences are not related to culture, so they have to originate in something deeper. From what I understand, the nature of the experience does not include any cultural elements? I definitely have to read up on this plant and the experiences induced by it.

Now on belief, reality and experience. I think the problem I usually have is, that I am quite a science nerd in that I want to either experience something myself, or have a source that I trust a lot. I try to be open to a lot of things, but sometimes it is tedious to sort out all the things from the many explanations and theories that I can either experience or find a trusty source for.
In Avatar terms, I am just like Grace - I will believe in Eywa the moment I go through her eye .
But in RL, I have no memories from past lifes and few things happen to me, that I cannot explain. Some do however (like the things that I was discussing at the beginning of this tread - the drawings, the feelings towards Pandora and some others), but I don't want to jump to conclusions the moment someone points towards some metaphysical explanation right away...

As you pointed out, "for a scientific person", I already do "believe in many mysterious things", but I try to be careful not to go completely into the wild (no pun intended) with speculation

So this brings me back to @Jean Joey, who worries about his post beeing overthrown by too much science talk. I am very sorry for that, sometimes I just cannot hold back when it comes to scientific debate. The thread started out as a quest to find the reasons behind many people having the same ideas that are portrayed in the movie and feeling at home on Pandora or even remember some of the elements about it. I have given some science talk about this, but I do not want to distract too much from exploring other possibilities as well. What I like to be on many occasions is "sceptical" - meaning not to disregard every explanation just because it is not proven by science (yet), keep an open mind to new ideas, but to explore these new explanations with a view that tries to stay away from what just has to be believed and cannot be experienced.

The plant mentioned by Seamus is an interesting topic BTW, I think. I definitley want to read more about it.

Greetings, Aurora

Edit: I just checked out some experiences on the sacramental plant brew mentioned. I could not really see a connection between the experiences except that many were unpleasant for at least parts of the time. But the expereiences vary widely and range from meeting Jesus to geometrical hallucinations to space travel to jungle visions. I am not sure, Seamus, what you were referring to when saying that people have similar experiences....

[Jean-Joey]

@ Aurora..
its going to be late now, and this is just a quick reply.. but from what you said.. its just too good to bring you back with this method of thinking-this mentality. its just what we need.
Actually, I try to be as neutral as i can toward new ideas/stuff we encountered here. but i tend not to reject new/weird stuff. that's exactly what you said: but I try to be careful not to go completely into the wild... Nice expression by the way..

I believe the Sciences we know isnt enough.. take a look about the CERN project(The Large Hadron Collider), and imagine, just Imagine what we're on the edge to discover
I've read once they made(or will successfully make) a black hole!!!!

You mentioned an important idea:

[...]in that I want to either experience something myself, or have a source that I trust a lot.[...]

exactly what I always wanted to do. and that's why i trust you people. while i cannot experience these things myself, so i consider you, my precious friends, the source that I trust a lot!
That's fair! here we have all sort pf people and ideas..
BTW, i've read some interesting articles about the DMT, but i lost it with some bookmarks when the stupid OS crashed without any reason!!..I'm trying to recover them..

Ahh.., final thought: Thank you Aurora.., "sceptical" is the word i needed!! thanks..
BTW, try to use Ubuntu. its a free OS based on Linux. I owe it a lot. Without it, I could lost some really valuable stuff..

See you tomorrow!!
Jean

[AuroraGlacialis]

BTW, i've read some interesting articles about the DMT, but i lost it with some bookmarks when the stupid OS crashed without any reason!!..I'm trying to recover them..
BTW, try to use Ubuntu. its a free OS based on Linux. I owe it a lot. Without it, I could lost some really valuable stuff..

I just spent two hours reading expereiences on the "vine of souls", but I could not really find the connection between them. In fact, it read more like the experiences were rather unique and individual. Many of them were indeed straining and tough for the people trying it (and most seem to have had extensive herbal experiences before). So if anyone reading this thread gets the idea to try this, I can from what I have read just say "dont try this alone at home". I could not make out a connection to the things we were talking about in this thread before though. If you still have some bookmarks that go more into that direction, I'm interested.

BTW, I am writing all my posts on a Kubuntu Linux running on an old Thinkpad. I'm not using KDE though - too bulky. Ok - not all posts, since I cannot resist to check my subscriptions at time on my Windows PC at work

Good night.
Aurora