For you, what is ''seeing'' ?

[Porthos1]

The current conversation reminds me of a quote from the 1927 Grand Council of American Indians:

"The white people, who are trying to make us over into their image, they want us to be what they call "assimilated," bringing the Indians into the mainstream and destroying our own way of life and our own cultural patterns. They believe we should be contented like those whose concept of happiness is materialistic and greedy, which is very different from our way.

We want freedom from the white man rather than to be integrated. We don't want any part of the establishment, we want to be free to raise our children in our religion, in our ways, to be able to hunt and fish and live in peace. We don't want power, we don't want to be congressmen, or bankers....we want to be ourselves. We want to have our heritage, because we are the owners of this land and because we belong here.

The white man says there is freedom and justice for all. We have had "freedom and justice," and that is why we have been almost exterminated. We shall not forget this."

[_Omaticaya_]

^Very nice Porthos1 Thankyou

Reminded me a lot of Toruk Makto's Speech to the Omaticaya

[exostrike]

This speach is connected with the Dawes act, a 1887 act which privatised the land of the indian reservations, opening it to be morgaged up or brought up. This ran counter to the idea of communial living since now the land was owned by someone instead of the tribe itself.

Luckly this act and the related view on Indian relations was reversed with the 1934 Indian Reorganization Act during the New Deal. Sure the act wasn't perfect but it did recognise the reservations as self-governing territories.

Being British this is about as much as I know about Native Americans in the Americas, a mention in an A-Level history course on america during the 20's and 30's.

Also we better stop getting so far off topic.

[Ja'k Dawsiin]

Also we better stop getting so far off topic.

heh heh....we do that a lot around these parts.

cool_flights.gif

[ALLie]

I agree with most of you guys... as I understand it, seeing is being conscious about your connection to everything that exists around you. To be aware of the unbroken thread that flows through all living things and their enviroment.

Speaking of seeing, I'd like to quote one of my favorite scientists, Ph.D. Neil DeGrasse Tyson, about our relationship witht he universe:

"We're all connected, to each other biologically... to the Earth chemically... to the rest of the Universe atomically"

And he also says:

"The eldest of stars, the most massive among them... They became unstable during their later times, colapsed and then split their enriched guts into the universe... That's where all the elements come from, all things the universe is made off... including us. People look up to the nightsky, see the stars and feel small... But I feel big, because I know the atoms that form my body came from those stars"

Another heroe of mine, Dr. Carl Sagan used to say:

"The cosmos is also within us, we're made of star stuff... We are a way for the cosmos to know itself"

That's how we are all connected, just like the na'vi and their enviroment... we are also connected to all living creatures, we are all made of the same chemicals, all constituted by DNA. Our enviroment, made of the very same elements we are. This is not science fiction at all, these are facts, you just have to See.

[Ximphron]

I do kind of wonder whether the Na'vi could accept and See any humans as exostrike wondered. If you tried to show them something from human culture, or a human philosophy, would they accept it or call it skypeople nonsense? Say you made a bow in an earth-like fashion. Would they be interested, or just hate it? If you told them good Earth teachings, would they listen?

[exostrike]

I do kind of wonder whether the Na'vi could accept and See any humans as exostrike wondered. If you tried to show them something from human culture, or a human philosophy, would they accept it or call it skypeople nonsense? Say you made a bow in an earth-like fashion. Would they be interested, or just hate it? If you told them good Earth teachings, would they listen?

Its an interesting question, I don't think the Na'v saw much of human culture, given that Graces school had Dr. Seuss books on its shelf. I suspect that a delibrate decision was taken to only let them study human lanquage, writing and some basic science and mathamatic skills. Partly to avoid accusations on earth that they are destroying Na'vi culture that way and so that they don't gain any tech edge over RDA. If you provided some human culture (carefully selected ofcourse so not to cause distress with industiral cities etc.) and only had it just there instead of pushing it (pushing it would cause them to resist it) then you might get them to accept it as worthy, atleast stop them dismissing it.

One idea I've had involves the earth authorities cutting up the great literacy classics (myths, plays and books), translating them into Na'vi and then sending them to Pandora in the hope that they will be absorbed into the Na'vi songs, allowing for human culture to indure (after a fashion) after the end of human civilisation.

[Ja'k Dawsiin]

I do kind of wonder whether the Na'vi could accept and See any humans as exostrike wondered. If you tried to show them something from human culture, or a human philosophy, would they accept it or call it skypeople nonsense? Say you made a bow in an earth-like fashion. Would they be interested, or just hate it? If you told them good Earth teachings, would they listen?

i believe the Na'vi would relate to the American Indian tradtions,customs,way of life,and other ancient cultures,but anything modern,industrial,or tech would not interest them in the slightest. you can't force roads on a civilization who are inherently happy and content with mud trails,horseback,and hunting with bows in the deep wilds. roads are overrated,anyway.

[exostrike]

But they would reject it anyway since they would view it as false if the people continue to act the same way they did before they brought out the charm offensive. If you can create a ideology/world view that is acceptable to the Na'vi yet is still practical, protection from the environment etc; then you might be on to something.

But you need all the advanced technolgy, miltary force and concrete to provide that security.

[allrock123]

I would like to add an example that comes from Zulu tribal wisdom but is shared by almost all native peoples , on the subject of seeing or connections to the world and humanity.
He speaks on something avatar presents so well , Awaken the mother mind.