An Avatar Awakening

[MikaElle]

Ummm weren't we just posting the other day about groups using Avatar for their own causes!

- Confused!


A couple of days ago there was at least 3 threads discussing heavily or debating whether 'groups' or 'organizations' should be using or allowed to use 'AVATAR' for their own purposes.

Then today I came across this one .. and rather than add to the fuel over on the other threads have posted it separately ...

The question for discussion is still regarding groups in general using Avatar .. it was not meant to focus on 'this organizations' message! Albeit that I did post this particular one because it provided an other side of the coin perspective regarding the debate!





An AVATAR Awakening | The LA Progressive

[dollarside]

I can't see the picture, can you somehow gimme a link or whatnot?

[brianct]

after downing street is a well known progressive site....and AVATAR does draw parallels with US adventures in Iraq and afghanistan.

[Keiser]

I strongly disagree with that message. EVERY military person I've talked to that's actually, you know, BEEN to Iraq has spoken of the enormously positive outcome there. RDA =/= U.S. military presence in the Middle East. You can definitely say the U.S. government has strong economic reasons for being there (making the area more stable politically = more stable oil production), and maybe that's unethical, but it's not the same by a long shot.

Also, I hear diplomacy works well with people insane enough to fly airplanes into buildings with innocents in them or blow themselves up to kill random pedestrians. Religious fanatics cannot be reasoned with because if you don't agree with their point of view, you're evil and a sinner/infidel. Note even the Na'vi are not diplomatic all the time, they're a race of warriors and will kill you for defiling the forest, they'd cut off each other's queues for evil actions.

I do NOT want Avatar connected to this message.

[brianct]

I strongly disagree with that message. EVERY military person I've talked to that's actually, you know, BEEN to Iraq has spoken of the enormously positive outcome there. RDA =/= U.S. military presence in the Middle East. You can definitely say the U.S. government has strong economic reasons for being there (making the area more stable politically = more stable oil production), and maybe that's unethical, but it's not the same by a long shot.

Also, I hear diplomacy works well with people insane enough to fly airplanes into buildings with innocents in them or blow themselves up to kill random pedestrians. Religious fanatics cannot be reasoned with because if you don't agree with their point of view, you're evil and a sinner/infidel. Note even the Na'vi are not diplomatic all the time, they're a race of warriors and will kill you for defiling the forest, they'd cut off each other's queues for evil actions.

I do NOT want Avatar connected to this message.

IRAQ...one million + dead..cities in ruins 4 million refugees...nice job USA!


the invasion of iraq is a war crime(aggressive invasion is the supreme war crime),..dont go to the criminals and and ask them if it wasnt!

Quaritchs shock and awe campaign certainly refers to iraq..glad that got thru!

[Fko lrrtok]

No matter what the message is being presented (not going to discuss the pros and cons of the Middle East wars), they are using Avatar as a platform to get the message noticed. Just like so many other orginisations are doing worldwide because Avatar is popular.

Goes to show that in the real world too, everybody is impressed with Avatar.

And we all thought it was just us.

[Keiser]

IRAQ...one million + dead..cities in ruins 4 million refugees...nice job USA!


the invasion of iraq is a war crime(aggressive invasion is the supreme war crime),..dont go to the criminals and and ask them if it wasnt!

Quaritchs shock and awe campaign certainly refers to iraq..glad that got thru!

Where do you get your figures? I'm guessing not from any actual source. Oh and feel free to ask an Iraqi police officer how he feels about Iraqi terrorists, I don't think you'd refer to him as a criminal.

I mean I guess you could draw a parallel if when the RDA chopped down trees the Na'vi burned their own forest to destroy the dozers, thereby burning down Hometree. In that case the Na'vi would have killed just as many of themselves as the RDA did, and that's closer to what's happened in Iraq.

Iraq Body Count
Those are documented deaths from morgues, hospitals, etc. Since not all deaths can be documented, it is widely assumed to be a lowball figure and could be higher, some estimate up to double, but nobody really knows. Either way, it's not a million.

Civilian deaths from violence in 2009 :: Iraq Body Count
Play with the graph at the bottom of that link to see the difference between coalition (U.S./police/etc.) forces and anti-occupational (terrorists).
The big spikes from the initial invasion and a few big operations mess up the scale for coalition forces, but by constraining the year you can see that on average the anti-occupationals are killing a lot more civilians than coalition forces (which keep in mind include Iraqi police and military).

[brianct]

Where do you get your figures? I'm guessing not from any actual source. Oh and feel free to ask an Iraqi police officer how he feels about Iraqi terrorists, I don't think you'd refer to him as a criminal.

I mean I guess you could draw a parallel if when the RDA chopped down trees the Na'vi burned their own forest to destroy the dozers, thereby burning down Hometree. In that case the Na'vi would have killed just as many of themselves as the RDA did, and that's closer to what's happened in Iraq.

Iraq Body Count
Those are documented deaths from morgues, hospitals, etc. Since not all deaths can be documented, it is widely assumed to be a lowball figure and could be higher, some estimate up to double, but nobody really knows. Either way, it's not a million.

Civilian deaths from violence in 2009 :: Iraq Body Count
Play with the graph at the bottom of that link to see the difference between coalition (U.S./police/etc.) forces and anti-occupational (terrorists).
The big spikes from the initial invasion and a few big operations mess up the scale for coalition forces, but by constraining the year you can see that on average the anti-occupationals are killing a lot more civilians than coalition forces (which keep in mind include Iraqi police and military).

LANCET figures.using cluster analysis method...the same method used in the congo war..and taken by US and JUK as valid

#1. Over One Million Iraqi Deaths Caused by US Occupation | Project Censored

sorry but facts are facts.

since the US military doesnt do body counts of natives...thus is the best and only source

iraqbodycount UNDER counts, and is not even scientific

'I mean I guess you could draw a parallel if when the RDA chopped down trees the Na'vi burned their own forest to destroy the dozers, thereby burning down Hometree. In that case the Na'vi would have killed just as many of themselves as the RDA did, and that's closer to what's happened in Iraq.'

not that the Na'vi did any such thing. As for na;vi killing themselves...

WTF!

[NewbieSupremo]

I really dont want this thread getting into an anti-USA argument. I am in the United States Marine Corps. Ive been in for 3 years. I feel very strongly toward Avatar. The message speaks to me each and every time I watch it or listen to the soundtrack. I do not agree at all with my government for invading Iraq. But if you're in the military, and you're unit gets deployed, there isn't much you can do. You can support the troops and not the war. Afghanistan is a different story. If you don't agree with the US government's motives for invading Iraq, then don't support it. But don't go around bashing the troops. Granted there are the outliers that have killed innocent civilians, which I think is enough to have them executed since that is such a horrible crime. But the bulk of the troops over there are people just like you and me. Fathers, brothers, sisters, sons, and daughters. They're just doing their duty because their government forces them to.

[Skypeople]

IRAQ...one million + dead..cities in ruins 4 million refugees...nice job USA!


the invasion of iraq is a war crime(aggressive invasion is the supreme war crime),..dont go to the criminals and and ask them if it wasnt!

Quaritchs shock and awe campaign certainly refers to iraq..glad that got thru!

This is more than a little offensive. While you're certainly entitled to your opinion, I suggest you do it in a way that is not going to offend those who are emotionally involved in the subject.