Avatar, King of The Box-Office World Not King of The Awards World

[Tree of Souls]

Really, looking back, did "Avatar" even stand a chance?

"Avatar" is still raking in the profits, but failed to produce the critical success that Cameron's previous film, "Titanic," generated 12 years ago. In fact, "Avatar" -- the most financially successful film of all time -- was easily the most mocked film of the evening.

Sure, it was an easy target. No other nominated film featured blue aliens. Oscar co-host Steve Martin participated in a bit where he used bug spray to defend himself against "Avatar's" jellyfish-like creatures. Ben Stiller attempted his best Na'vi impression as a presenter -- oh, that could have been much, much worse.

However much audiences may enjoy the visually stunning imagery in "Avatar," it seems, when it comes to the Oscars, nothing beats real, live human beings.

Los Angeles Times columnist Patrick Goldstein sums up this sentiment by writing, "My suspicion is that academy members still find it difficult to believe that films largely created and sculpted in the computer--whether it's "Avatar" or the long string of brilliant Pixar films -- can be just as worthy and artistic as the old-fashioned live-action ones."

But if anyone was going to defy the big-budget-visual-effects-films-don't-win-Oscars rule, everyone seemed to think it could be James Cameron.

In 1997, James Cameron's other box-office behemoth, "Titanic," accomplished the rare feat of box-office and Oscar dominance. "Titanic" was nominated for a record 14 Academy Awards and won a record 9 awards. "Avatar" only won three of its nine nominations: Best Cinematography, Best Art Direction, and Best Visual Effects. Cameron's "Titanic" also won those same three awards, plus 6 others, including the Academy Award for Best Picture and Best Director; "Avatar" lost Best Picture and Best Director to "The Hurt Locker."

"Avatar" had the unfortunate luck -- if you can call a movie that's made over $2.5 billion worldwide "unfortunate" -- of being right smack in the middle of the science fiction genre. A genre that, historically, doesn't win Oscar gold no matter how successful financially. In 1977, "Star Wars" became the most financially successful film of all time but lost the Best Picture Oscar to "Annie Hall." Similarly, in 1982 "E.T." set box-office records but lost the Academy Award to "Ghandi." The closet thing to science fiction to ever win Best Picture would be 2003's "Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King" -- and even that film series needed three attempts before it finally won.

This year, Cameron was frustrated that his film wasn't taken seriously as an "actor's film." He worked hard in his Oscar campaign to spread the notion that actors acting in front of green screens and using computer generated technology are just as worthy as actors not engulfed by special effects. (Actors make up the largest segment of the voting Academy.) Clearly, the campaign did not go over so well at the Oscars. However unfair it may be, it seems no one likes the idea of being replaced by a machine.

Avatar, King of The Box-Office World Not King of The Awards World - The 82nd Annual Academy Awards® on Yahoo! Movies (http://oscars.movies.yahoo.com/blog/68-avatar-king-of-the-box-office-world-not-king-of-the-awards-world?nc)

[Jacob]

<Nitpick>Titanic won 11 Oscars, not nine.</Nitpick>

An interesting article, though I disagree with some of the points. First, I don't think parodies are the same as mockery. If anything it only shows how widespread familiarity with Avatar has already become in our culture if people can make references to it as parody. (If it will have the lasting power of something such as "No, I am your father" remains to be seen though.)

Second, I'm not sure if it was just CGI bias that put the voters off. There have been many, many criticisms of the story's simplicity and unoriginality. Is it that hard to imagine that the voters just truly didn't think Avatar was the best film of the year.

[iluvneytiri]

Avatar deserved Best Picture because it is truly revolutionary and grandiose and overwhelming in scope, and has had tremendous impact on people all over the world. As far as actors are concerned, there are the best actor awards that can take care of the actors. Ok, so don't give an Oscar to the actors in Avatar because their characters were enhanced/modified by computers - but they should have given the Oscar to the film itself, and to its genius director, James Cameron. Anyway, for me the Oscars are finished. I will NEVER watch them or follow them again after this idiotic farce.

[Jacob]

Avatar deserved Best Picture because it is truly revolutionary and grandiose and overwhelming in scope, and has had tremendous impact on people all over the world.

The visual effects were revolutionary, the story was nothing new. No surprise then that visual effects was one of the Oscars that Avatar did take home, but screenplay was not.

The story was not particularly grandiose, though the world it created was. The story is more important, however. It's a (more or less) dramatic film, not a documentary.

Visually it was overwhelming, and that's what it was rewarded for. On other fronts - not so much.

Since when does having an impact on people factor into the quality of a film?

[iluvneytiri]

Second, I'm not sure if it was just CGI bias that put the voters off. There have been many, many criticisms of the story's simplicity and unoriginality. Is it that hard to imagine that the voters just truly didn't think Avatar was the best film of the year.

I find the story VERY original in a science fiction context. I have never seen a science fiction movie like Avatar. Science fiction movies always show you the bad aliens in their spaceships, or sometimes the good aliens, but they are nearly always more advanced than humans. Here you have a story where the aliens are us on a distant planet, and the natives of that planet ( moon, actually) have a neolithic type of society. The story for me was extremely original, plus it's a science fiction story with a love story within it. And the whole concept of avatar bodies is different from what i have seen before.
Very, very original in my opinion!

[iluvneytiri]

Since when does having an impact on people factor into the quality of a film?

I have seen Avatar 25 times and will see it another 25 times if I have a chance. Every other movie in my life I saw once or max. twice and soon forgot. No Hurt Locker will ever do that to people.

[Tree of Souls]

The visual effects were revolutionary, the story was nothing new. No surprise then that visual effects was one of the Oscars that Avatar did take home, but screenplay was not.

The story was not particularly grandiose, though the world it created was. The story is more important, however. It's a (more or less) dramatic film, not a documentary.

Visually it was overwhelming, and that's what it was rewarded for. On other fronts - not so much.

Since when does having an impact on people factor into the quality of a film?

Gee..I thought having an impact on people who view the film was the whole point of filmmaking. Otherwise, why bother?

I don't know why you are on this forum if you did not like the story.

[Tzmukan Wokan]

anybody with a Camera can go and record a war... but you need somebody really special to create a whole new world, using an outstanding technology, and I think most important, Avatar is giving us a message about what are we becoming

[Jacob]

I find the story VERY original in a science fiction context. I have never seen a science fiction movie like Avatar.

But if you've seen Dances with Wolves, Pocahontoas, Ferngully, etc. you've seen a movie like Avatar. The story is unoriginal, even if it hasn't been used in this setting before.


Science fiction movies always show you the bad aliens in their spaceships, or sometimes the good aliens, but they are nearly always more advanced than humans.

Perhaps you have heard of a little film series called Star Wars? It's only the most successful science fiction franchise ever.


Here you have a story where the aliens are us on a distant planet, and the natives of that planet ( moon, actually) have a neolithic type of society. The story for me was extremely original

The STORY was unoriginal, though the setting substituted spaceships and planets for boats and continents.


plus it's a science fiction story with a love story within it.

Science fiction with romance is hardly a new thing.


And the whole concept of avatar bodies is different from what i have seen before.
Very, very original in my opinion!

I'd mention Surrogates, though the idea of Avatar predates that movie, even if the release date does not. This may be one of the few original parts of the movie.

[Jacob]

I have seen Avatar 25 times and will see it another 25 times if I have a chance. Every other movie in my life I saw once or max. twice and soon forgot. No Hurt Locker will ever do that to people.

How do you know that?

[Jacob]

Gee..I thought having an impact on people who view the film was the whole point of filmmaking. Otherwise, why bother?

The point is to entertain, which Avatar definitely does in spades. Just saying "it moves people" doesn't necessarily make it a well-made film, however,

I don't know why you are on this forum if you did not like the story.[/QUOTE]

Way to put words into my mouth, ToS. My attitude towards the story is somewhat like my attitude towards Eragon (the book): not the best, not that original, but still entertaining. Avatar's story is way better than Eragon's though, and it has plenty else going for it as well.

[Arthur]

> You know what? Except for D9, most of the other nominated movies were about minorities or segregated people figthing for their freedom of speech and freedom of will, etc, etc, etc (Examples: Precious and THL, for starters).
> Avatar wasn't about that. It had a "green" message and mentioned the Earth and its inhabitants. That only proves that Avatar was INDEED revolutionary, because it still sent a criticizing but incentivating helpful message but running from the fat and they jewish (again, as examples, from Precious and THL). But the academy (not worthy of capital A anymore) is a cup already full... There's nothing much we could've done.
> PS.: Yeah. Mockery and parody are different. But killing virtual atokirinas with a water spray would be for us like making fat jokes or jewish jokes for fat people and jews (once again AS AN EXAMPLE).

[Migg3006]

Avatar deserved Best Picture because it is truly revolutionary and grandiose and overwhelming in scope, and has had tremendous impact on people all over the world. As far as actors are concerned, there are the best actor awards that can take care of the actors. Ok, so don't give an Oscar to the actors in Avatar because their characters were enhanced/modified by computers - but they should have given the Oscar to the film itself, and to its genius director, James Cameron. Anyway, for me the Oscars are finished. I will NEVER watch them or follow them again after this idiotic farce.

Your so right, but I will probably watch the Awards again when AVATAR 2 will come out, just to see if people have evolved and accepted the genius of James Cameron.

That was A VERY BIG JOKE lose in front of hurt locker sure it's a good movie, but it probably 100th movie like this. Contrarily at AVATAR, who it a new wave, fresh meet, you know. People have been afraid by the new things James Cameron has done. And for that the best movie (my share) didn't win all the honers he will suppose to win.

[Dreaming Of Pandora]

Avatar should of got Best Picture. No need to post reasons we all know why.

[Huntress]

Avatar's story not original? Avatar's story made up?

And Hurt Locker's story is original? C'mon! War stories have been redone again and again. Same story. The only thing different about Hurt Locker is that many soldiers and Veterans of the War on Iraq are saying those scenes in the THL as well as the behavior of the soldiers portrayed in the film never happened will never happen in real life.

[Migg3006]

Avatar's story not original? Avatar's story made up?

And Hurt Locker's story is original? C'mon! War stories have been redone again and again. Same story. The only thing different about Hurt Locker is that many soldiers and Veterans of the War on Iraq are saying those scenes in the THL as well as the behavior of the soldiers portrayed in the film never happened will never happen in real life.

Yeah that it!!!

[Angry Na'vi]

Eh, I was not that surprised because the Oscars never go to science fiction. I thought Avatar would squeak by and get it. I knew it was though when even the technical sort of awards were not going to them. I saw Hurt Locker. It's a good movie no doubt but all it is just another war movie to me. It's not that original either. Oh well. Whatever. Obviously the most entertaining film is Avatar just like Star Wars and E.T. that should have won in my opinion.

[Shilka ZSU-23-4]

i liked zombieland...

and Black Hawk Down was better than THL
nuf said by my part

[Nightweaver20xx]

"The Hurt Locker" won Best Picture because it's about a war that's still very fresh in our minds. And that's what short-sighted human beings like, recalling recent wartime glory. Who cares if, in 20 years, nobody remembers or really cares about the Iraq War? People do NOW, and that's all that matters. It was a movie of the now, of the germaine, something violent little monkeys like us can dig our teeth into and say "YES, this is what makes us human."

"Avatar" lost because it was a movie about bohemianism and the natural world conquering mankind's urge to kill and destroy. Unfortunately, as short-sighted as we are, we are unable as a species to overlook our own egos enough to vote for a film that basically lays bare how incredibly arrogant and violent we are. Especially actors, and especially a small group of them with their noses so far up their own asses that they can't even see the world anymore.

That is what happened on Oscar night, and why it turned out the way it did. Now that Avatar has lost, every single person I know has turned against the film, mocking it and saying that all it was was a special effects spectacle with no substance. It's so painful to listen to that I can't even describe it in English verbiage. Every time I hear a comment like that now, I have to repress the urge to put a hole through someone's face.

I'm going to start posting here again more often I think.

[Jacob]

Now that Avatar has lost, every single person I know has turned against the film, mocking it and saying that all it was was a special effects spectacle with no substance.

That isn't anything new. It's been happening at least since the first trailer came out, maybe even earlier. Many, many reviews have made the same observation since then as well.

[Nightweaver20xx]

That isn't anything new. It's been happening at least since the first trailer came out, maybe even earlier. Many, many reviews have made the same observation since then as well.

So have you turned against the film now that we've all basically had our collective hats handed to us about how badly everybody but the actual film-going public thinks of the movie? I'm just curious, since you seem to have a certain antagonism against the movie.

[Jacob]

So have you turned against the film now that we've all basically had our collective hats handed to us about how badly everybody but the actual film-going public thinks of the movie? I'm just curious, since you seem to have a certain antagonism against the movie.

I don't have an antagonism against the movie: it's one of my favorites. I just get annoyed by angry fanboys who can't stand that the Academy disagrees with them and go off on a collective forum-wide spiel of insults, ad hominems, and general immaturity.

I would have voted for Avatar for Best Picture (though admittedly I don't watch a lot of movies in theatres and have never seen THL, so I wouldn't be a good voter), but I'm not pissed off that the actual voters disagreed with me. I was rather surprised and a bit disappointed, but there's really no need for the kind of animosity that's been demonstrated on this forum recently.

[Nimue]

I didn't get to watch the awards show, but I am pleased to hear that Avatar was at least recognized as an award winner instead of neglected.

I'm also not going to belittle the Hurt Locker for being "unoriginal". War is fresh on the mind of people today, it's a subject that many can identify with on a personal or at least emotional level. I can see how it would have amounted to the Best Picture.

Though on an amusing note, I turned to my room mate and told him the Hurt Locker won over Avatar. He looked back at me and said "... what's the Hurt Locker?". :P Then again, our apartment is full to the brim with fantasy-buffs, so I shouldn't be surprised about him not knowing what it was.

[andrea_5]

I wasn't surprised by the results, but still I felt disappointed. I'm sad because some people didn't recognize true value of Avatar, and I feel even worse now when I've watched the hurt locker, which was a disappointment. It was average war movie, like any other, but some people were supporting it only because they didn't want for Avatar to win. That really makes me angry and sad, in some way.

[iluvneytiri]

Now that Avatar has lost, every single person I know has turned against the film, mocking it and saying that all it was was a special effects spectacle with no substance. It's so painful to listen to that I can't even describe it in English verbiage. Every time I hear a comment like that now, I have to repress the urge to put a hole through someone's face.

I'm going to start posting here again more often I think.

Not my experience! Every person I know who loved Avatar before the Oscars still loves it just as much, and the only person I know who didn't like it before the Oscars still doesn't like it. As for myself, I love AVATAR more than ever, much more now than I did before the Oscars! :in-love::in-love:

This my objective opinion: no movie even comes close to Avatar and I don't care if they won 10 or 20 Oscars!

[superpidrooo]

AVATAR is the king of everything, this is why the experts didn´t give it the best picture... envy

[Avatarguy004]

Alas, I was so hopeful. The academy just needs to deal with the fact that it was an awesome movie, I don't care if it is science fiction, deal with it and set a precedent. Is that so hard? Is it damaging to academy's ego to allow the Na'vi a win, instead of a "human" movie. Is the computer animation really that much of a turn-off? I'm obviously biased, but I say no, the most popular and financially grossing movie ever is obviously loved by numerous people or else it would not be so. I think it is just a power play by the academy. They want to make a statement that they are better than the public and cannot be swayed. They are wrong in this instance.

[Migg3006]

Alas, I was so hopeful. The academy just needs to deal with the fact that it was an awesome movie, I don't care if it is science fiction, deal with it and set a precedent. Is that so hard? Is it damaging to academy's ego to allow the Na'vi a win, instead of a "human" movie. Is the computer animation really that much of a turn-off? I'm obviously biased, but I say no, the most popular and financially grossing movie ever is obviously loved by numerous people or else it would not be so. I think it is just a power play by the academy. They want to make a statement that they are better than the public and cannot be swayed. They are wrong in this instance.

You are totally right!!! I have now find, by what you have say, the words I was need, thanks.
The public have a world to say for this decisions. For who the movies are made? US, the public, we know if what we see is better than an other.

And watch out!! I don't say that the academy don't have his word to say. Because they have better knowledge than us in that domain, but they have to know our position to make good decisions.

That my point of view.

[Jacob]

How do you people know that the Academy has such motives for passing over Avatar? Is it so utterly beyond your comprehension that someone might not like the film (*gasp*) that you think that people only pretend to not like it?

[Migg3006]

How do you people know that the Academy has such motives for passing over Avatar? Is it so utterly beyond your comprehension that someone might not like the film (*gasp*) that you think that people only pretend to not like it?

I don't denied the fact there can have people who don't like the movie. I just said, if Avatar have 2,638,344,000$ a the box office that showed there got a lot of people who have liked it. The academy have to consider that in there decision.
If no one in the comity, who chose the Oscar winner, don't like Avatar, then Avatar will not win, even if the big majorities of public love Avatar. That why I think it should be a part of the decision who will go to us the public.

[Jacob]

I don't denied the fact there can have people who don't like the movie. I just said, if Avatar have 2,638,344,000$ a the box office that showed there got a lot of people who have liked it. The academy have to consider that in there decision.

Since when is the Academy answerable to box office trends?


If no one in the comity, who chose the Oscar winner, don't like Avatar, then Avatar will not win, even if the big majorities of public love Avatar. That why I think it should be a part of the decision who will go to us the public.

What exactly is your point? Is it that the Academy doesn't always agree with the general public? I think that's fairly obvious, but I'm not sure why you would bring it up. The Academy is not supposed to be a mirror for public opinion; it reflects the opinions of its voters. That's how a lot of awards shows work. If you would rather see a more "populist" awards show, well, there are plenty of those out there too.

[Migg3006]

Since when is the Academy answerable to box office trends?



What exactly is your point? Is it that the Academy doesn't always agree with the general public? I think that's fairly obvious, but I'm not sure why you would bring it up. The Academy is not supposed to be a mirror for public opinion; it reflects the opinions of its voters. That's how a lot of awards shows work. If you would rather see a more "populist" awards show, well, there are plenty of those out there too.

Ah ok, I didn't know that, but who is the Awards Voters??

[Jacob]

Ah ok, I didn't know that, but who is the Awards Voters??

Various actors, writers, and other film professionals. You can see a (partial) list on the Academy's website (http://www.oscars.org/academy/members/members.html).

[Migg3006]

Various actors, writers, and other film professionals. You can see a (partial) list on the Academy's website (http://www.oscars.org/academy/members/members.html).

Thanks I am glad to have learn that.

[Jacob]

Thanks I am glad to have learn that.

You're very welcome. :)