life beyond our solar system

[thackley]

There must be.

200 billion stars in our galaxy

240 billion galaxies in the visible universe!

Figures that are hard to comprehend. The only problem is getting there.

A light second is the distance to the moon. I think it took man 4 days to travel one light second! I think unless we are shown by an advanced lifeform how to travel across interstellar space we will never achieve it as a species.

The distances are hard to comprehend. Even our nearest star system (proxima centauri) is an impossible dream. Mankind will have to advance hundreds if not a thousand years to reach the inteligence needed to make such travel possible within a human lifespan.

The galaxy is teaming with life and civilisations of that i have no doubt.

[Feyd]

Well, if we do it it'll probably be sooner that your estimate.

Technological advances come at an exponential rate in our society. The only problem would be solving our energy crisis and environmental issues before we would be able to work on the infrastructure.

Even with current technology, the nearest star is still a 100 year trip. A probe is feasible, but we'd never hear anything about it in our lifetimes.

[Wanderlust]

This is where the pros live. :cool:
http://www.avatar-forums.com/images/imported/2010/03/486.jpg

=D

[HufweMakto]

This is where the pros live. :cool:
http://www.avatar-forums.com/images/imported/2010/03/486.jpg

=D

Pretty cool, but I'm more worried about the micrometeors and the collisions.

[Wanderlust]

Hmm, in terms of collisions with other asteroids im sure they would keep a detection system and be able to move the rock.

For micrometeors keep the base side facing away from the direction of movement. (And have good materials)

Most of that base is inside the asteroid anyway.

[tsteu taronyu]

Hmm, instead of travelling at super high speeds...could we bend the space in between? Would that solve micrometeor problems? Then again, it's probably impossible. Rather, it's just an interesting theory I stumbled upon one day.

[JamesCameronBlogspot]

Personally, I don't subscribe to the argument that "The universe is big, therefore there's life."

I mean, if I were an intelligent bacteria and I were placed inside of a sterilized surgical room, I could similarly say, "Well it's so big, there has to be others like me in here!" However, that would be wrong, obviously.

The basic flaw in this reasoning, I think is that infinity is supposedly somehow synonymous with inevitability. That is, the larger something is, the more likely a specific occurrence is to occur. But when the options are infinite, that's not true. For example, if I were to open up Excel and run a random number generator and have numbers equate to letters....I would never, ever, ever get a Charles Dickens novel.

Anyway, the bottom line is that we have only one example of life occurring on Earth (where conditions are obviously optimal) and that was at the still unknown origin of life. All life thereafter has spawned from that. This is called common ancestry, as represented in Darwin's tree of life. So, if the conditions for creating life are perfect here on Earth, and if it only happened once, then what are the odds that (a) there's another planet like this and that (b) that same "happy accident" occurred there.

And that fallacious "infinity equals inevitability" reasoning has, I think, lead to the totally bogus Drake Equation, which states that we can calculate the odds of their being life on another planet. Here's what Michael Crichton wrote about the Drake Equation:

MichaelCrichton.com | Aliens Cause Global Warming (http://michaelcrichton.com/speech-alienscauseglobalwarming.html)

Cast your minds back to 1960. John F. Kennedy is president, commercial jet airplanes are just appearing, the biggest university mainframes have 12K of memory. And in Green Bank, West Virginia at the new National Radio Astronomy Observatory, a young astrophysicist named Frank Drake runs a two week project called Ozma, to search for extraterrestrial signals. A signal is received, to great excitement. It turns out to be false, but the excitement remains. In 1960, Drake organizes the first SETI conference, and came up with the now-famous Drake equation:

N=N*fp ne fl fi fc fL

Where N is the number of stars in the Milky Way galaxy; fp is the fraction with planets; ne is the number of planets per star capable of supporting life; fl is the fraction of planets where life evolves; fi is the fraction where intelligent life evolves; and fc is the fraction that communicates; and fL is the fraction of the planet's life during which the communicating civilizations live.

This serious-looking equation gave SETI an serious footing as a legitimate intellectual inquiry. The problem, of course, is that none of the terms can be known, and most cannot even be estimated. The only way to work the equation is to fill in with guesses. And guesses-just so we're clear-are merely expressions of prejudice. Nor can there be "informed guesses." If you need to state how many planets with life choose to communicate, there is simply no way to make an informed guess. It's simply prejudice.

As a result, the Drake equation can have any value from "billions and billions" to zero. An expression that can mean anything means nothing. Speaking precisely, the Drake equation is literally meaningless, and has nothing to do with science. I take the hard view that science involves the creation of testable hypotheses. The Drake equation cannot be tested and therefore SETI is not science. SETI is unquestionably a religion. Faith is defined as the firm belief in something for which there is no proof. The belief that the Koran is the word of God is a matter of faith. The belief that God created the universe in seven days is a matter of faith. The belief that there are other life forms in the universe is a matter of faith. There is not a single shred of evidence for any other life forms, and in forty years of searching, none has been discovered. There is absolutely no evidentiary reason to maintain this belief. SETI is a religion.


Anyway! The bottom line is that I don't believe there is any reason to believe that there's life on other planets....other then faith!

[Txen]

Anyway! The bottom line is that I don't believe there is any reason to believe that there's life on other planets....other then faith!

With a lack of evidence sure it is a leap of faith. I'm not sure that there is a complete lack of evidence or at least some information that appears to point in the direction that life may be out there. It's important to distinguish what kind of life. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of locations that have bacterial level life. From what we can tell it started here just as soon as the earth cooled down and stabilized. Today a few billion years later we are left with two divisions of single celled life, the bacteria and the archea, that are quite different. They may have even arose separately.

I'm with you on the lack of evidence. For all we know life may have arrived on earth from somewhere else. It may have started here. It may have started here more than once. The evidence is lost in time and I really doubt we will ever be able to know.

Now SETI requires intelligent life at close to our level in order to get a positive result. I'm not so sure they will ever find anything. To me it's kind of like this. We can build these sensitive electronic ears so why not point them at the sky and see if we hear anything. One thing is for sure. I we don't listen we will will not hear anything. I don't see a big downside for trying other than what it costs. I pretty much doubt that we will ever hear anything, but that doesn't mean we should not at least try.

[Dreaming Of Pandora]

Why travel when you can let spacetime travel for you! Believe or not Warp Drive is a possibility.

[TK'ru]

I remember a physics professor telling us in the class that the equations for mass/energy do not work for light speed travel, but DO work for faster-than-light travel...its a barrier to get through somehow or jump across. Kind of like how aeronautical engineers had to deal with the shock wave problems of the sound barrier.

[Spock]

My sticky thread highlights some quite viable options. You should have a read through it. Warp travel isn't that far fetched after all.

[Iceri]

The way I see it, life is a very rare occurrence. It requires exact conditions that are one-in-a-million. But the universe is so vast, that those odds aren't bad! But that's all irrelevant if we are talking higher powers, omnipotent beings, and deity, which I won't go into for the respect of opinions. ;]

Everyone should check out National Geographic's "Journey to the Edge of the Universe". It doesn't have that much information in it, but it is indeed humbling and awe inspiring. Also you should take a look at this, makes you feel nice and insignificant :3
The Scale of the Universe


(http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/525347)

[Fko Lrrtok]

There must be.

200 billion stars in our galaxy

240 billion galaxies in the visible universe!

Figures that are hard to comprehend. The only problem is getting there.

A light second is the distance to the moon. I think it took man 4 days to travel one light second! I think unless we are shown by an advanced lifeform how to travel across interstellar space we will never achieve it as a species.

The distances are hard to comprehend. Even our nearest star system (proxima centauri) is an impossible dream. Mankind will have to advance hundreds if not a thousand years to reach the inteligence needed to make such travel possible within a human lifespan.

The galaxy is teaming with life and civilisations of that i have no doubt.

I would have to agree,
just on the probability on the odds that the amount of stars (200 Billion x 240 billion, estimate on averages) alone, that could have planets in orbit around them and that none would have any life above the microbiological level would to me seem more far fetched to me than if they did.
JamesCameron Blogspot is correct in saying that at the present time this is only faith, maybe we will never know.
Time will tell, and I mean by that time as percieved by a person standing still on Earth.:nlol:

[JamesCameronBlogspot]

With a lack of evidence sure it is a leap of faith. I'm not sure that there is a complete lack of evidence or at least some information that appears to point in the direction that life may be out there. It's important to distinguish what kind of life. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of locations that have bacterial level life. From what we can tell it started here just as soon as the earth cooled down and stabilized. Today a few billion years later we are left with two divisions of single celled life, the bacteria and the archea, that are quite different. They may have even arose separately.

I'm with you on the lack of evidence. For all we know life may have arrived on earth from somewhere else. It may have started here. It may have started here more than once. The evidence is lost in time and I really doubt we will ever be able to know.

Now SETI requires intelligent life at close to our level in order to get a positive result. I'm not so sure they will ever find anything. To me it's kind of like this. We can build these sensitive electronic ears so why not point them at the sky and see if we hear anything. One thing is for sure. I we don't listen we will will not hear anything. I don't see a big downside for trying other than what it costs. I pretty much doubt that we will ever hear anything, but that doesn't mean we should not at least try.

First off, I agree with you that, as long as it doesn't drain too many resources and people don't get too carried away in thinking that SETI is a real science, I have no problem with it, and it's probably a worthwhile endeavor. When in doubt, just go for it! (That's kind of my philosophy.)

However, I disagree with you on the argument that life started more than once (although, technically, it's possible and, like you said, we can't really know.) But you wrote that, "the bacteria and the archea, that are quite different. They may have even arose separately."

According to the book, 'The Making of the Fittest', by Sean B. Carroll, that's almost definitely not the case. From that book:

"The third and most recent discovery has emerged from the study of archaean genomes. Scrutiny of archaean genes has revealed critical clues about the making of our own eukaryotic ancestors nearly 2 billion years ago. Still preserved in the DNA of these primitive organisms are many pieces of DNA code that also exist in humans and all other eukaryotes. This shared text forms the remaining traces of an early event that gave rise to the first eukaryote, and is crucial evidence that an archaean was one of our original genetic parrents." (Chapter 3)

So, again, this supports the common ancestry theory, as does the mind-boggling statistical improbability of the creation of amino acids into proteins into life.

[superpidrooo]

in future will be possible of course, in 120 years more or less.... I´m very interesting living out there of our solar system, I´m watching and reading about the journey that will take place in 2025 to go to mars

[Arcazyiln]

Warp Speed Would Kill You : Slice of SciFi (http://www.sliceofscifi.com/2010/02/25/warp-speed-would-kill-you/)

Remember Startrek series' warp engine? According to this article, by basing on Einstein's theory of relativity, humans would die within a second of going to warp. Looks like our dream of traveling to distant worlds won't come true. I wonder why space is so vast and planets with sentient lifeforms are so far from each other.

[Prometheus]

Warp Speed Would Kill You : Slice of SciFi (http://www.sliceofscifi.com/2010/02/25/warp-speed-would-kill-you/)

Remember Startrek series' warp engine? According to this article, by basing on Einstein's theory of relativity, humans would die within a second of going to warp. Looks like our dream of traveling to distant worlds won't come true. I wonder why space is so vast and planets with sentient lifeforms are so far from each other.

Take what's written in that article with an enormous grain of salt. It's not even coherent speculation. It has very little basis in reality because it's based on very flimsy conjecture. Yes, the particles would have those energies at those velocities, however given how sparse those particles are in space (nowhere near the particle densities in an accelerator), your chances of getting a lethal dose of anything is minimal. I'd be more worried about getting caught in a solar flare. In any case, it's purely hypothetical because they have no experimental evidence to back their claims.

Anyway, you're not going to be traveling through the Solar System at warp speed to begin with.

Besides, going at warp speeds means your changing the geometry of spacetime in order to travel at those speeds. The warp field would push any particle aside, effectively acting as a force shield.

Space is so vast because of inflation and sentient lifeforms on other planets might not be as far away as you think :)

[Jean-Joey]

Well, what a waste of space if there is no other life forms out there! dont you guys think the odds of even 1 chance for life to be existed in another planet?
we observed astral entities and suns 13 billion light year! that means we see there "past"! we see what were there forms 13 billion years ago.
the human showed on earth only around 15,000-20,000 years only..
can you get the difference?

the odds are high enough to consider thinking about this issue. But keep ourselves skeptics.
for who says if there is Aliens, why they didnt contact us: if you showed him some UFO photos he'll say its round could or visual illusion or fake ( and there is some fake videos, i believe ).
so he dont believe because they didnt contact us. when you show him the evidence he doesnt believe, saying its fake!! how could this come?

[Olaf]

if there is Aliens, why they didnt contact us
Because of the prime directive of course! :)

[Olaf]

Warp Speed Would Kill You : Slice of SciFi (http://www.sliceofscifi.com/2010/02/25/warp-speed-would-kill-you/)

Remember Startrek series' warp engine? According to this article, by basing on Einstein's theory of relativity, humans would die within a second of going to warp. Looks like our dream of traveling to distant worlds won't come true. I wonder why space is so vast and planets with sentient lifeforms are so far from each other.
Based on Einstein, I agree there is no hope for us humans to space travel.
But science is not something static, new things get discovered all the time, we migth find a sollution to some problem in the next few hundered years.

[Prometheus]

Based on Einstein, I agree there is no hope for us humans to space travel.
But science is not something static, new things get discovered all the time, we migth find a sollution to some problem in the next few hundered years.

If you actually understood GR (General Relativity), you would know that the above statement is wrong. There is nothing in principle stopping you from traveling faster than light. It's how you go about it which is the key.

The solution to the problem will come a lot quicker than you expect:)

[Olaf]

If you actually understood GR (General Relativity), you would know that the above statement is wrong. There is nothing in principle stopping you from traveling faster than light. It's how you go about it which is the key.

The solution to the problem will come a lot quicker than you expect:)
That is what I meant.
Maybe we could ride the wave of space itself, that can go faster than light. :party:

[Migg3006]

Well, what a waste of space if there is no other life forms out there! dont you guys think the odds of even 1 chance for life to be existed in another planet?
we observed astral entities and suns 13 billion light year! that means we see there "past"! we see what were there forms 13 billion years ago.
the human showed on earth only around 15,000-20,000 years only..
can you get the difference?

the odds are high enough to consider thinking about this issue. But keep ourselves skeptics.
for who says if there is Aliens, why they didnt contact us: if you showed him some UFO photos he'll say its round could or visual illusion or fake ( and there is some fake videos, i believe ).
so he dont believe because they didnt contact us. when you show him the evidence he doesnt believe, saying its fake!! how could this come?


^Listening to that this guy, he have totally right!^

Since December 2009, after a big conference, the science community have start right now to search life in space for real. New satellite are presently in conception only to examined atmosphere who can contain life. The science community have conclude by saying it's a question of 20-25 years before we find life in space. Even the James Webb telescope, the one who will replace Hubble in 2012 or 2014, will be equipped with spectrometer. It will be able to know precisely the atmosphere containment of different extra-Earth.

The James Webb Space Telescope (http://www.jwst.nasa.gov/) =====> info about James Webb

And that not all since not a long time ago we are able to detect this Extra-Earth, the first one who have been discover is Corot 7b and after we have discover this one the number have rise without stopping.

Even in Alpha century, simulation show real possibility of an potential life Extra-heart and that's not the only one.

http://www.avatar-forums.com/pandora/9672-pandora-maybe-truth.html

Gliese 581 is an other potential one.

Gliese 581 d - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gliese_581_d)

And discover haven't finish for it just start!!!