Na'vi Battle Tactics

[jabibbins]

I hope in Avatar 2 Jake teaches the Na'vi about general tactics. Such as flanking (the full frontal horse people attack was a bad idea) and circle while shooting (parthian circle).

If these tactics were used I am convinced that the horse people wouldn't have been decimated how they were, or at least they would have inflicted far worse casualties on the RDA ground troops.

Split the horses into groups of 10 riders, have those riders start riding in circles, the closest rider fires his bow and uses the rest of the circle to reload and aim, direhorses are huge and would be very stable firing platforms especially since you are bonded with the creature giving it commands telepathically.

Ikran warrior tactics seem as good as they could get, I mean theres not much you can do after the first quick downward charge, after that your arrows will most likely miss or not do enough damage. They could have attacked in waves, and more coordinated, but hey I give them the benefit of the doubt with not very much time for planning and assuming Na'vi aren't warlike and don't practice fighting anything but animals often.

What do you guys think? Could the Na'vi have used better tactics, or did they do the best they could?

[sunnyside]

The horrible vulnerability of the airships was using rotor based designs. They could have tried having the Ikrans droop some heavy branches in there.

The trouble with "circle" tactics for the horsemen is that they would be greatly outranged by the AMP suits and likely the footsoldiers as well, and they would have a far slower rate of fire. Those techniques were typically used against slow infantry without weapons of sufficient reach.

Flanking could have helped. But it could be easily botched. Again these are spear and shield infantrymen. They can respond to flankers by turning and firing. It's potential advantage would be in having more total riders per wave, but if their timing was off such that delays resulted in a slower rate of riders coming in, it would likely have actually made things worse.

On the note of time, since the air battle is what really mattered, getting in there swiftly without waiting or organize to maneuve in order to keep as many guns off the fliers as possible might have been horrible for them, but the overal best action given the situation.

[Wildfeatures]

I still don't get why the Na'vi just didn't smash them! Surely there were as many Ikran riders as there were helicopter-thingys? They should just have picked one each and knocked it out. With the element of surprise on their side as well as the altitude, they should have won.

Yeah, I agree on the rotor design. Just take a huge rock from a mile up and dive down with it and let it crash in to the rotor and that Dragon ship would be disabled.


As for the ground, I think the Na'vi's stealth is their greatest advantage. Say half of the force were hidden in the trees firing arrows down at them.

Most of the others on Dire horses outflanking them. The RDA would likely respond by forming a circle, facing outwards. Since the Na'vi would dictate where the battle took place they could have hidden in the ground. These would attack the RDA from within the circle.

[Ignis]

I didn't have a problem with their tactics. From the sky attack from above, from the ground attack in great numbers closing the gap quickly and over running the RDA. The RDA guns can out shoot and have a greater range than Na'vi arrows, so get in close and have the 1000 10ft blue crazy people smash the 100 RDA :D

[punishingwrath]

Na'vi tactics weren't good so much as it was RDA tactics were idiotic. They looked like a bunch of idiots bumbling through the woods. The airships barely even responded to attack.

The simplest possible thing they could have done is just drop napalm on the forest, let the fires spread, and burn out any Na'vi hidden in them, eliminating half the threat right there. After that, coordinate the aerial forces with the ground forces and set up an effective crossfire that would blow the Na'vi out of the skies with little trouble. The fight would have been over in a matter of minutes with minimal casualties on the RDA's part.

[sunnyside]

Hmmm, I doubt a fire would spread like that there. Pandora isn't a tinderbox like Californa. I'm guessing these are the sort of trees you have to slash before they'll burn well.

But on many levels the only rational for RDAs actions was gross overconfidence.

However that wouldn't be the first time in history gross overconfidence has cost someone a battle. And in RDAs defence they couldn't have seen deus ex Eywa coming, and the likely thought Jake dead as opposed to flying around on a dragon with a bunch of explosives.

I think James is going to have his work cut out for him making a believable sequel in that RDA really can bring so much more potential devestation to bear. Still, he did much better with Avatar than I expected. So I have high hopes.

[punishingwrath]

Hmmm, I doubt a fire would spread like that there. Pandora isn't a tinderbox like Californa. I'm guessing these are the sort of trees you have to slash before they'll burn well.

You ever seen what napalm does? It's not like holding a torch up to a tree. Napalm is not picky about what burns and what doesn't. Enough napalm and that forest is burning down no matter how wet it is. Or we could go back to old fashioned tactics and start dumping quicklime everywhere, but that would be much more difficult.

[tsteu taronyu]

I'm thinking that the Na'vi were once good at plotting things out on the battlefield at one time, like during the battles between the tribes. But that's long past, and they were never up against anything of the RDA's caliber. I'm guessing they've lost knowledge on how to "engage" enemy forces affectively on the battlefield. Like someone else said earlier (sorry for not quoting) they seem to be more geared towards stealth.

As for dropping rocks into the rotor blades, I dunno if the ikran are strong enough to lift them while still evading the fire of the RDA.

[Imperius Dictatio]

More then likely not. I wouldnt be surprised if there was some type of safety mesh over the duct fans to prevent debris from fouling the system.

[MikaElle]

Personally I doubt that the Na'Vi have anything in their frame of reference such as Battle Tatics .. it goes completely against the Spirituality, Tsahaylu, and complete Energy Connection to Eywa!

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[Apex Predator]

If anything, the Na'vi should have adopted guerrilla tactics since stealth and knowledge of the environment are their two greatest advantages. And according to history, guerrilla fighting has worked relatively well from the Peninsular War where Spanish guerrillas (when the term first came into use) fought off Napoleon's elite French troops to the American invasion of Vietnam and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Advanced technology is a huge boon to have when fighting a war, but it alone does not guarantee victory. Several factors like the environment, numbers, and leadership decide who the victor is.

Back to the topic, I believe had the Na'vi used guerrilla tactics on the ground like ambushing RDA troops in small ambushes and raids and then fleeing back into cover, they would have suffered far less casualties. The direhorse charge itself was completely ineffective as RDA guns and AMP suits rendered them obsolete. It's like leading a cavalry charge against tanks and machine guns, there's a reason why we don't use horses in war anymore. As for the air assault, that was planned alright (maybe cause Jake was leading it) so no critique there. In the sequel, I hope to see more guerrilla tactics from the Na'vi.

[jabibbins]

They were desperate to save the tree of souls. Before the battle they were all getting pumped up ready to fight for Eywa and kick the sky people off Pandora, it may have been unwise to suggest guerrilla tactics when their most sacred place is at stake!

If I were the Na'vi I would be enthusiastic to finally meet the sky people in battle with many of my fellow warriors.

I do agree that guerrilla tactics like the firing arrows from trees idea and hiding in the grass would have been well suited to Na'vi skills as hunters.

Also, if they had more time some traps could have been set up where the battle was expected to take place, would have been kind of like Star wars on Endor

[Wildfeatures]

I'm thinking that the Na'vi were once good at plotting things out on the battlefield at one time, like during the battles between the tribes. But that's long past, and they were never up against anything of the RDA's caliber. I'm guessing they've lost knowledge on how to "engage" enemy forces affectively on the battlefield. Like someone else said earlier (sorry for not quoting) they seem to be more geared towards stealth.

As for dropping rocks into the rotor blades, I dunno if the ikran are strong enough to lift them while still evading the fire of the RDA.

Think of where they were. The flouting mountains. Don't you remember how they hid above the ships? Just take a 500 lbs rock and dump it on the dragon's rotor from a couple of thousand feet up, no safety mesh will hold up to that.

And the only reason why the Na'vi attacked before they had built up their forces was because Quaritch made the first move. Had he started to burn down forests (which I doubt he would have succeeded with) he would have given the Na'vi time to mount an attack of their own. Either way Quaritch lost.

[Spartan117cjl]

What the Na'vi should of done is advance a line of Archers through the Jungle brush while taking that line and cupping it around the RDA line. While this is going on the Cavalry is moving to a position where they can strike the enemy in the rear.

[gilmeiri1]

In Avatar : The Game
Bay'damo (http://james-camerons-avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Beyda%27amo) say that's he read "The Art Of War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_War)"

[jabibbins]

All Na'vi seem to be natural marksman with their bows. Those bows I would guess have a range of at least 600 meters (a meer 200 more than the longbow fired by a human)

So within 100-200 meters they should be deadly accurate, like we saw the warrior stick the RDA troop from horseback while charging towards him.

My guess just the sheer volume of fire overwhelmed the horse clans, then the chopper counter attack didn't help.

[Zapgun]

Actually I do believe that the Na'Vi clans did at times go to war against each other. I dont care how spiritualistic, in tune, at harmony, or in love with mother nature you are or how many trees you hug on a daily basis.

War is a nasty business. Clearly in a time of peace they forgot that lesson.

[sunnyside]

What the Na'vi should of done is advance a line of Archers through the Jungle brush while taking that line and cupping it around the RDA line. While this is going on the Cavalry is moving to a position where they can strike the enemy in the rear.

While not bad manuering, it loses sight of the fact that the initial ground battle is meaningful only in how it affects the air battle.

The troops were airdropped in, so it wouldn't have been possible to be in position ahead of time unless you knew where the drop was going to take place. Therefore any manuvering they did would have been at the expense of giving the ground forces time to pick off more forces in the sky. If what happened to Neytiri happened to Jake the tree might have gotten blown even after the animal assault.

But there are an array of references to wars in the Na'vi's past. Both in the book and movie. Though it seems they've been in a peaceful patch as of late, at least in this corner of the moon.

@jabibbins
On arrow range. First I believe the distance you quote for the longbow is for a flight arrow not an arrow with a proper combat oriented head. Secondly the atmosphere of Pandora is denser than earth, which would tend to shorten the range of all projectivle. Thirdly and perhaps most importantly, it seems like the glass they use is arrowproof until the shoot gets in pretty close.

[Imperius Dictatio]

Actually I do believe that the Na'Vi clans did at times go to war against each other. I dont care how spiritualistic, in tune, at harmony, or in love with mother nature you are or how many trees you hug on a daily basis.

War is a nasty business. Clearly in a time of peace they forgot that lesson.

That would make sense. They wouldnt have much use for warriors (Or even know a what a warrior would be.) If they didnt fight amognst each other.

[jabibbins]

Neytiri's great-great grandfather was Toruk Makto, perhaps he is the one who brought peace to the Na'vi through the strength of his leadership. I'm wondering what the time of sorrow was in regards too, the time of skypeople coming?

I didn't think about the denser Pandoran atmosphere, would definitely effect arrow flight, however Pandora has less gravity so perhaps it evens out? The AMP suits are very effective but there was only perhaps a dozen of them on the ground, once the troops without arrow deflecting armor have been dispatched the remaining AMP troopers would have been overwhelmed, even if the Na'vi had to outnumber them in a melee hundreds vs a dozen is still an impossible fight for RDA to win.

[Imperius Dictatio]

1. Doubtful. I think I heard that mankind had only a presence on Pandora for roughly 20 years.

2. Problem. The way the Na'vi handled the ground battle made it a fact that they wouldnt have bombarded the humans with arrow fire. (A Straight on Cavarly charge implies that they were closing into melee range.) However they didnt take into account of the sheer wall of fire the humans were able to put up. Blunting the Na'vi charge and denying them the advantage of melee combat. Looked like the charge was stopped from roughly 75-100 meters away from the firing line.

So pretty much. Na'vi battle tactics and Strategy sucks. And I dont see it getting much better. Main problem is they treated the Humans as they would another tribe in warfare.(Even then these tactics sucked.) They paid for this mistake by losing a vast majority of there best warriors during the course of the battle. This will be a problem when Humans return to Pandora with a large and more advanced military presence.

[Zapgun]

Their strategy implied that they did not understand the full implication of a firearm. Yes a hunter or Na'Vi was probably shot here and there in isolated circumstances and most likely at very close range.

And also because Jake failed to explain the full capability and function of a gun, it cost them dearly.

[sunnyside]

Their strategy implied that they did not understand the full implication of a firearm. Yes a hunter or Na'Vi was probably shot here and there in isolated circumstances and most likely at very close range.

And also because Jake failed to explain the full capability and function of a gun, it cost them dearly.

Actually that's a very good thought.

They went far and wide to assemble the clans who had been gathering for days.

While word of the sky people had likely spread, it's quite possible that most of the Na'Vi present for the battle had never seen a sky person, much less been given a detailed briefing on those weird blunt spears they're carrying.

I'm guessing most of the charge came from the distant "plains" tribes as the locals would likely have chosen to join the battle on an Ikran.

The sad situation is many Na'vi's last moments were probably along the lines of:

"OH MY EYWA! THERE ARE HOLES IN ME! How can this be?" http://www.avatar-forums.com/images/imported/2010/03/26.gif

[punishingwrath]

Irrelevant. Their lack of intelligence on the enemy, combined with blindly following a bunch of strangers into a battle against an enemy that is not even after them, is all the fault of the Na'vi, and further proof of their ineptitude in battle.

[Na'viTirea]

I reckon they could have done much more damage hiding in the forest and using bows and arrows.
many of the Na'vi are phenomenal archers, with a great deal of skill.
Plu if they're hidden, they have less chance of being shot that riding into the open on the Pa'li.

[Zapgun]

Exactly, I always like to think that: If Mohammad cannot go to the mountain, then let the mountain come to Mohammad