Na'vi and morality

[Huurrra]

According to James Cameron's Wiki, "they have an egalitarian social organization, unusual in a society at such a stage in their development."

Although the Na'vi treat each other equally, do you think this will eventually change and they will ruin their world just like we ruined ours?

Or do you think the Na'vi are naturally more kind/rational than us so they will never repeat our mistake?

Or...do you think we and the Na'vi are the same by nature, but they will still never repeat our mistake because they have learned to "see" more through their cultural/social development?

[Ocyris]

You might want to check out this topic (http://www.avatar-forums.com/na-vi-culture-language/7492-why-navi-more-advanced-than-we.html) we're discussing many of those exact ideas.

[sunnyside]

The Na'vi are "ruled" by their sentient world.

If their sentient forest can sick all manner of wildlife on RDA, I would presume any tribe that decided to clearcut part of the jungle would suffer a painful, messy, demise.

So long as their planet's needs do not change, I doubt the Na'Vi would either.

[Devourment]

They have everything they want, they rejected the technologies we had, I doubt they will ruin their world.

Pandora is perfect.

[Tzmukan Wokan]

I prefer big trees than skyscrapers

[Anna]

If you beileve in Sigmund Freud's theories, it is possible that the Na'vi's brain is different than the humans. According to Freud (in short) every human being is born with something called the "ID." The ID is basically attracted to pleasure, resistant to pain. For example a child will take a toy from another child because of the ID. Every single human being is born with it and has it. What balances it out is basically the "ego." The Ego is what that child who takes the toy must LEARN. You have to teach children to behave well and do things that will help them "fit into society." Now that child knows that if it wants the toy it must ask for it. Then that child could possibly grow up into a white collar black tie cooperate, who now knows that in order to take over the other company he has to do it through lies or desept. And this applys to everyone, every single one of us (of course this all is just a theory- you cant prove ANYTHING in Psychology hahaha.) I can go on for hours about it.

But like I said, if you beileve in that, maybe it is possible that the Na'vi ID doesnt need to be taught. Na'vi children are born knowing not to take toys, knowing "goodness" without being taught. Hense why they grow into peaceful adults. And if that is all true then the Na'vi will never end up like the humans. =] They are aliens after all.

[Ocyris]

They have everything they want, they rejected the technologies we had, I doubt they will ruin their world.

Pandora is perfect.

I'd agree that in the near term the Na'vi aren't likely to follow our path. However, while they live in harmony with nature the question's if they can continue to live in harmony with each other. They have warriors indicating they likely have fought each other in the past. Also they have demonstrated that they can be afflicted by the same negative emotions as us. Ignoring the Deus Ex Machina (Eywa) it's at least possible for them to take the first steps to a more warlike race.

It doesn't take much to being to fall and it can be a difficult vicious cycle to stop. Can I say they will fall in the distance future? Not with any certainty but I certainly can't rule it out either. Perhaps some how their example will save us and maybe if they lose their way we can return the favor.

As for the assertion the Pandora is perfect, perfection is a very subjective term. As was pointed out in another thread it's a matter of how perfection is defined. Is it perfectly natural? Certainly. Is it perfectly safe? Certainly not.

[Avonaco76]

interesting topic. think their ability to connect to their world physically will keep them from making tne same mistakes that humanity has made. Humanities connection to the earth was spiritual/metaphysical. The Na'vi connection is physical and biological as well as spiritual...their brains literally "plug in" to the consciousness of the Aywa spirit.

[Tawtsamsiyu]

If you beileve in Sigmund Freud's theories, it is possible that the Na'vi's brain is different than the humans. According to Freud (in short) every human being is born with something called the "ID." The ID is basically attracted to pleasure, resistant to pain. For example a child will take a toy from another child because of the ID. Every single human being is born with it and has it. What balances it out is basically the "ego." The Ego is what that child who takes the toy must LEARN. You have to teach children to behave well and do things that will help them "fit into society." Now that child knows that if it wants the toy it must ask for it. Then that child could possibly grow up into a white collar black tie cooperate, who now knows that in order to take over the other company he has to do it through lies or desept. And this applys to everyone, every single one of us (of course this all is just a theory- you cant prove ANYTHING in Psychology hahaha.) I can go on for hours about it.

But like I said, if you beileve in that, maybe it is possible that the Na'vi ID doesnt need to be taught. Na'vi children are born knowing not to take toys, knowing "goodness" without being taught. Hense why they grow into peaceful adults. And if that is all true then the Na'vi will never end up like the humans. =] They are aliens after all.

That’s a very good point. It’s already known from various sources that the Na’vi brain is structured quite differently from a human brain. This is already obvious since they have queues with which they can connect and interact with similarly-endowed lifeforms. It follows from that very fact that there is little reason to believe they would evolve a similar form of civilisation to ours even if their circumstances were identical to ours.

[Huurrra]

That’s a very good point. It’s already known from various sources that the Na’vi brain is structured quite differently from a human brain. This is already obvious since they have queues with which they can connect and interact with similarly-endowed lifeforms. It follows from that very fact that there is little reason to believe they would evolve a similar form of civilisation to ours even if their circumstances were identical to ours.

Interesting...If you put Selfridge in an avatar, would he have the Na'vi mindset and terminate his mining operation? (I guess not since avatars have human DNAs)

[Human No More]

I doubt it. Not with their connection to the world, with Eywa, with their respect for living things.

[Na'viTirea]

i do not think that their society would change.
when earth's did, our population increased at such a rate that it put a huge burden on our resources, eg. wood, oil, clean water. we began to destroy our world to satisfy our curiosoty to exploit our surroundings for personal, technological and industrial gain.

In Pandora, Eywa exist to keep the balance of nature, as Neytiri tells Jake at the Tree of Souls.
I think that if the Na'vi began to interrupt the balance of life in the ecosystem, Eywa would intervene to prevent the Na'vi from becoming too populous and overruning the planet.

And of course, with such a deep and profound respect and knowledge of nature, and their love of Pandora, they would not want to destroy it by making human mistakes :)

[Wildfeatures]

According to James Cameron's Wiki, "they have an egalitarian social organization, unusual in a society at such a stage in their development."

Although the Na'vi treat each other equally, do you think this will eventually change and they will ruin their world just like we ruined ours?

Or do you think the Na'vi are naturally more kind/rational than us so they will never repeat our mistake?

Or...do you think we and the Na'vi are the same by nature, but they will still never repeat our mistake because they have learned to "see" more through their cultural/social development?

Some humans figured that they would "get ahead" by exploiting our world, and our resources instead of having harmony.

The Na'vi doesn't think of this as getting ahead. They have other values where listening to others etc are more valuable.

[Fkeu'itan]

I don't think the Na'vi culture would ever change, as others have said, they can actually physically connect to their world unlike us.

On this point, do you think the Na'vi can feel any physical "pain" caused to their world?

[Demiurgos]

Many valid points here but the fact remains:
It will happen what J.C. sees fit to happen !
It is the universe he created and he alone has the exclusive rights to develop it and amend it ... until further notice.

[joeylovesgaia]

But like I said, if you beileve in that, maybe it is possible that the Na'vi ID doesnt need to be taught. Na'vi children are born knowing not to take toys, knowing "goodness" without being taught. Hense why they grow into peaceful adults. And if that is all true then the Na'vi will never end up like the humans. =] They are aliens after all.

Sigmund Freud had some good ideas, but no theory is perfect. And Freud never had the tools to turn his guesses into real science. Jung and Adler had different ideas about the psyche, some compatible, some not.

Anyway, what makes you think that all humans are innately selfish? Some may be, but cooperation and altruism are found throughout the animal kingdom, even in not-so-intelligent species--just look it up.

BTW, I think the Na'vi are far too human to be real aliens. Aliens would look like, I don't know, giant crabs or jelly blobs or something. But that's beside the point; the Na'vi symbolize a side of human nature that western society tried to forget, and of course they also stand in for real indigenous people. Stories like this have many levels. ;)