Prisoners of War

[exostrike]

I do wonder how the Na'vi deal with prisoners during their wars. Are there an agreed set of rules about what should be done like the Geneva Conventions, or is surrender considered dishonorable and everyone fights to the death?

And after the finaly battle what happens if some SecOps troops survive the viperwolves. Do we hand them over to RDA as their pulling out, hold them until thier exopacks wear out, or the knife and some nice trophies.

[Foxhound]

Well I would assume that Sully would try to take prisoners but i can't speak for the rest of the Na'vi.

[Jason 438]

Most likely just send them home with the rest the na'vi just want peace

[tm20]

no one is left alive >:D

[Porthos1]

I would think that the Na’vi would not have “rules” like the Geneva Conventions, but rather a somewhat controlled and compassionate dealing with prisoners during warfare. Since life for the Na’vi is one of balance, warfare would be a limited affair with lots of excitement initially and heroic deeds a plenty, but would eventually be talked down once a “balance” is achieved. Prisoners during these conflicts would be treated well (as they are all brothers/sisters) and returned after negotiation or mutual agreements.

Dying so as not to be dishonored would not be the Na’vi way.

After the Battle at the Well of Souls, any surviving SecOp troopers would have been held. They probably would have had medical assistance and held until Jake and the Na’vi finished with the RDA at Hells’ Gate. I do not believe there would have been many of the ground troops left…they were being too quickly overrun, lost cohesion and broke to become snack food for the second wave. Although not in the movie, Eywa may have called off the dogs once “balance” was achieved and the threat of further conflict or danger to her “person” was at a minimum…that would be my take if there were any survivors.

[Palulukan_Taronyu]

no one is left alive >:D

actually t20

at the end of the movie there are troops left.

Also, In a deleted scene it shows the remaining ground troops hopping onto Samson's.

[Porthos1]

Deleted scenes don't count! ;-) I wish they had kept that one.

During the march out to the shuttle at the end of the movie, there are SecOps that are patched up. These could be survivors of the ground attack, unless there was more action near Hell's Gate that wasn't even in the cut scenes.

[tm20]

actually t20

at the end of the movie there are troops left.

Also, In a deleted scene it shows the remaining ground troops hopping onto Samson's.

oh really? thanks, i didn't know that....
http://www.avatar-forums.com/images/imported/2012/05/31.jpg

[Foxhound]

During the march out to the shuttle at the end of the movie, there are SecOps that are patched up. These could be survivors of the ground attack, unless there was more action near Hell's Gate that wasn't even in the cut scenes.
Well a deleted scene did include Max Ramming a vehicle with a Gigantic spinning blade into the command center. Maybe some of the guys on the floor below were hit by debris.

[Scott]

I find the concept of Na'vi vs Na'vi warfare in opposition to Ewya's wisdom. War is the results of unchecked ego, intolerance, ignorance, greed, and fear. The battle between the RDA and the Na'vi was not a war, it was a fight for survival, more similar to a pair of large predators duking it out over a carcass than war between nations. I can see Na'vi tribes having rivalry which results in bloodshed, as we all know how proud and arrogant some Na'vi behaive. But war is altogether a different animal.

[Tsyal Makto]

Why would the Na'vi need PoWs? War isn't a matter of politics to the Na'vi, it was self defense, plain and simple. Afterwards I'd think they'd want their aggressors gone ASAP. I know this piece of canon is up in the air, but I'd bet money on the Na'vi just sending the RDA back to Earth. What would they want, or need from the humans? Or get from torturing them? All they need is Eywa and her land.

[exostrike]

I agree about not counting that deleted scene, it changes too much about the end of the film.

From the fluff I do get the picture there is war between the Na'vi, mainly over territory. Both sides will fight for a bit until one side is clearly superior. Then they negotiate, with the miltary victor in a postion of strength, once a deal is finalised then life returns to normal. At least until the next war.

But what about the humans they can't send back? What about squads that surrendered after the last shuttle left?

[ScottWashburn]

The Na'vi clearly have wars since they have a word for "warrior" and respect great warriors. Still, I don't think they have the sort of mass carnage that modern human wars entail. Many primitive human cultures have a highly ritualized sort of warfare that will allow for a winner and a loser but with relatively little bloodshed. Dominance is determined and the losers submit or withdraw and are allowed to do so by the victors. I see the Na'vi as behaving in a similar fashion.

There probably weren't a lot of survivors from the RDA attack force, but I imagine that any prisoners were returned as part of the peace negotiations. (Keep in mind that if we discount the deleted scenes of the fighting in Hell's Gate then there MUST have been some sort of negotiations between Jake and Selfridge after the battle to get the humans to evacuate their still heavily defended base. Returning RDA prisoners may have been a powerful bargaining chip that Jake held.)

[Scott]

The Na'vi clearly have wars since they have a word for "warrior" and respect great warriors. Still, I don't think they have the sort of mass carnage that modern human wars entail. Many primitive human cultures have a highly ritualized sort of warfare that will allow for a winner and a loser but with relatively little bloodshed. Dominance is determined and the losers submit or withdraw and are allowed to do so by the victors. I see the Na'vi as behaving in a similar fashion.

There probably weren't a lot of survivors from the RDA attack force, but I imagine that any prisoners were returned as part of the peace negotiations. (Keep in mind that if we discount the deleted scenes of the fighting in Hell's Gate then there MUST have been some sort of negotiations between Jake and Selfridge after the battle to get the humans to evacuate their still heavily defended base. Returning RDA prisoners may have been a powerful bargaining chip that Jake held.)

Many species in nature have warrior/soldier types, such as ants, but none of them that I know of go to war-even army ants on the march that kill everything in their path are not wagging war. They exist to protect the species. If a Thanator attacked Hometree the Na'vi warriors would attempt to kill it or drive it off, but that is not war. If another tribe of Na'vi attacked Hometree with the goal of wiping the Omaticaya so that they can move in, that in my mind is war, but goes against the "Ewya will provide" faith the Na'vi have. Because they know(choose not to ignore as man dose)that they are all part of something bigger than themselves its far more difficult for Na'vi individuals to abuse positions of power for self serving purposes. Most wars are started by elite level a$$holes who are gifted enough to poison the minds of their followers.

[ScottWashburn]

And yet they have the word for warrior. If their only combat was against animals they would just use the word 'hunter' or perhaps 'guardians'. If they have warriors its because they have something that at least they regard as war.

[Porthos1]

Exostrike wrote: "But what about the humans they can't send back? What about squads that surrendered after the last shuttle left?"

If there were SecOp "squads" surviving and subsequently captured, I would agree with what Scott says, they would have all been returned prior to the shuttle departing. Any trooper that survived the battle but was not accounted, either by SecOps or the Na'vi, would be missing in action and presumed died.

The term "warrior" would reflect that some sort of "war" is a possibility among the Na'vi.

[Jason 438]

"The Na'vi have failed to develop tools and weapons for purposes beyond possible primitive warfare with the surrounding clans and hunting/survival, an anomaly stemming perhaps from the fertility of the planet. For a race that is so connected to all other creatures, warfare would seem unlikely, but not unheard of, as indicated by numerous references to the term "warrior"."

[exostrike]

The Na’vi are generally not aggressive with each other, and have many strategies for conflict resolution, both within and between clans. However they are extremely fierce when provoked beyond the limits of these social limiters. War among clans is not unknown, especially when habitat changes rapidly, driving one clan into another’s territory, which can be triggered by stressors such as flooding, vulcanism etc. Na’vi warfare is characterized by fierce fighting followed by immediate interactions to resolve conflict through bargaining and negotiation.

I think this proves that warfare does take place on Pandora

[Palulukan_Taronyu]

Deleted scenes don't count! ;-) I wish they had kept that one.

I agree wish they added that one back in. :)

There is a scene showing a door gunner on a Samson shooting at some of the Ikran riders. They finished it but didn't add it in either version. Not even in the extended blu-ray or deleted scenes.


oh really? thanks, i didn't know that....
http://www.avatar-forums.com/images/imported/2012/05/31.jpg

Yeah, Watch the deleted scenes. You got the Extended version correct?

[The Silver Stag]

Kill them, then present them as a gift to the neighbourhood thanator ;)

*omnomnomnomnom*

[Porthos1]

I am wondering, what if we taste terrible and would not be considered food for the animals and Quaritch was only saying that to instill fear into the new crop of employees. Maybe the creatures just kill the humans as a way to protect Eywa and do not ingest the alien flesh. Just a thought.

[Wind12]

I guess it depends on how long after the battle was over that the shuttle left, I think that 99%(if not100%) of the humans are accounted for in three catagories. 1. died, 2.left, 3. allowed to stay (friends of the Na'vi). Now that being said it is plausable that a handfull could have fell through the cracks. Did all of the humans head for Hell's Gate when retreating, or did some decide to try and "hide" out in one of the mining areas(cleared of vegetation, big machinery to hide in and around) i.e. tried to get to hells gate but thier transportation was damaged. Stuff like that does happen in war(remember some of the fighting force may have been the miners who may not be trained to deal with war) So that being said I guess there could be a few humans left over that are still alive on Pandora and would have been sent home but missed the shuttle because they were hiding or what not. So I would think that if they are found( either by Na'vi, or the other humans) they would just be sent back to the science areas, as without thier weapons they would be no threat to anybody and would be given a choice, either play nice with the human community that remains on Pandora and live with them in peace, or if for some reason they still wanted to be beligerant just drop them off in the forest and say "good luck dude";)

[ScottWashburn]

Any 'left behinds' could stay at Hell's Gate until the next ISV arrives. There are still at least two and possibly three of them inbound to Pandora that have no choice but to stop there.

[exostrike]

Of course there's the left behinds who decided to fight against the Na'vi believing they had no chance of surival, so deciding to launch a sucide attack.