Underlying Cultural Conections Behind The NaVi people.

[allrock123]

In doing research on Avatar and its connections I am often asked "Who Do the Na'Vi represent" , I know James Cameron Took many very real connection examples from Native cultures around the world to build on this connection,(The Na'Vi are a Mirror example in fiction and do not directly represent by name any native peoples on earth that would be dissrespectful), they "do" share enougth connections so we can relate to what they stand for quite easly and "mirror" our planets own native peoples this was done on purpose) yet when I try and present respectfull examples of this connection people people show very little intrest , James Cameron himself is confused on this issue as he thought many would see this connection with little effort , My main question is "Do people see and respect the underlaying root connections and understand where they came from when looking at the Na'Vi people as an example ? Or do they see the Na'Vi as pure fiction, I am including a film review, with an interesting perspective.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcqBH-Ip7Eo&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0E8QlkgqoI&feature=related

[Ximphron]

I see the Na'vi mostly (but not entirely) representing the current stereotype of Native Americans. They have many real cultural things taken from various peoples yet represent societies' stereotyped and idealized version of Native Americans. I thought it was obvious that they were inspired by real-world people, and thought everyone else did too. Never met someone who didn't.

I have issues with the term "indigenous peoples" but I won't go into a rant here.

[Ja'k Dawsiin]

I have issues with the term "indigenous peoples" but I won't go into a rant here.


agree'd....i prefer the actual phrase 'native peoples',as the other term is used in a rather derogatory and belittling manner,especially after hearing that bastard colonel coffeecup use it to contemptuously marginalize the Na'vi on Pandora.

[Ximphron]

I don't want to throw this thread off track, but my reason is that both of those terms refer to the "original" people in an area. This is a problem, because if you call Native Americans "indigenous peoples of America" then you should call Europeans "indigenous peoples of Europe". Also almost all "indigenous peoples" got there by displacing a previous people; for example the Lakota are considered an indigenous people yet they displaced or conquered earlier people of the plains.

[Theorist]

Another connection I noticed was the similarities to the people in the Middle East, and the U.S. If you remember the part where Jake says his whole operation was a waste of time, that he could never get them to move. "For what? a pair of blue jeans and a light bear?" There's also a part where Selfridge says "We tried to give them medicine, we tried roads, but they didn't want those. They want mud." These remind me of how the U.S. is trying to give stuff to the Middle East, such as democracy, and medicine, in order to have better access to oil.

[allrock123]

I have heard many terms used , and yes "Indigenous" may come posably come across is insensitive , I guess the best answer would be to ask members of the native population how they would like to be respectfuly refered to , also be aware Avatar pulls underlying cultural refrences from many "first nation peoples" from Africa, Central America all around there world but everyone "sees" this diffrently depending on there point of view.
how first nation peoples "see" Avatar is also important as they wonder how we see and relate to what was shown.

[allrock123]

ok lets change the term Indigenous to something that better fits.

[Ximphron]

To understand where I am coming from, since understanding someone's origins is vital to understanding their views.
The people of my area tend to use the nearest river, combined with the word people. My own Native American heritage is with the local Patuxent People, for example. This is considered part of the Piscataway tribe now. While almost everyone here is a descendant of a people controlled by the Piscataway, you won't notice any of us looking "Native-Americanish" because the tribal lands were taken in the 1630s and there has been much mixing of peoples.
I am also a large part Lakota and Cherokee (more than I am Patuxent, actually) but I don't identify with those tribes because I did not grow up learning their customs and they are far away. It was largely my learning of the native people's customs here that led me to study Anthropology.

While there are a great many bad stereotypes about native peoples, I think we should avoid creating stereotypes that are too good as well. Take for example the ideas that "Indians use every part of the buffalo", or "they always say a prayer for an animal after killing it" or "they were in perfect harmony with nature". Those all sound good and happy, and are represented with the Na'vi, but they aren't true. The Lakota people did not use every part of the bufalo, nor did they use every one they killed. My own people here have no records or tradition of saying prayers for animals, nor did they have a tradition for "returning to the earth". While better than the Europeans of that era concerning the environment, they would often burn areas of forest, or kill for sport, not exactly pure harmony with nature.

My friend is Mayan and she also notices the common idea of idealized native peoples, when her own people are thought by many archaeologists to have caused their own empire's demise due to extreme environmental destruction.

So I think that the Na'vi are inspired by native American peoples for a large part, looking at their traditions and items such as bows. But they seem to be a much more idealized version than a real version. So while I am fine with the Na'vi being inspired by American peoples as I see it, we should not assume they parallel native American peoples in beliefs and traditions, because that gives us a distorted view of history.

The term "Indigenous" isn't really offensive, all it means is "originating in that area", it doesn't really work as a description for native Americans or Africans, because by that definition Europeans, Central Asian peoples, etc, should also be alled "indigenous". You also can't call anyone the "first people there" because nearly everyone got where they are now by conquering someone else.

Another problem with the term "indigenous peoples" is that it groups too many people together. Even "Native Americans" does this, I dislike the term because the Patuxent are not the Lakota are not the Maya. It's like grouping all European peoples together, saying that Hungarians and Portugese people are the same thing. Things can even be very different close by. A nearby tribe burned their dead. My own let the bodies rot in the open, then buried the bones in a fur bag.

[allrock123]

To understand where I am coming from, since understanding someone's origins is vital to understanding their views.
The people of my area tend to use the nearest river, combined with the word people. My own Native American heritage is with the local Patuxent People, for example. This is considered part of the Piscataway tribe now. While almost everyone here is a descendant of a people controlled by the Piscataway, you won't notice any of us looking "Native-Americanish" because the tribal lands were taken in the 1630s and there has been much mixing of peoples.
I am also a large part Lakota and Cherokee (more than I am Patuxent, actually) but I don't identify with those tribes because I did not grow up learning their customs and they are far away. It was largely my learning of the native people's customs here that led me to study Anthropology.

While there are a great many bad stereotypes about native peoples, I think we should avoid creating stereotypes that are too good as well. Take for example the ideas that "Indians use every part of the buffalo", or "they always say a prayer for an animal after killing it" or "they were in perfect harmony with nature". Those all sound good and happy, and are represented with the Na'vi, but they aren't true. The Lakota people did not use every part of the bufalo, nor did they use every one they killed. My own people here have no records or tradition of saying prayers for animals, nor did they have a tradition for "returning to the earth". While better than the Europeans of that era concerning the environment, they would often burn areas of forest, or kill for sport, not exactly pure harmony with nature.

My friend is Mayan and she also notices the common idea of idealized native peoples, when her own people are thought by many archaeologists to have caused their own empire's demise due to extreme environmental destruction.

So I think that the Na'vi are inspired by native American peoples for a large part, looking at their traditions and items such as bows. But they seem to be a much more idealized version than a real version. So while I am fine with the Na'vi being inspired by American peoples as I see it, we should not assume they parallel native American peoples in beliefs and traditions, because that gives us a distorted view of history.

The term "Indigenous" isn't really offensive, all it means is "originating in that area", it doesn't really work as a description for native Americans or Africans, because by that definition Europeans, Central Asian peoples, etc, should also be alled "indigenous". You also can't call anyone the "first people there" because nearly everyone got where they are now by conquering someone else.

Another problem with the term "indigenous peoples" is that it groups too many people together. Even "Native Americans" does this, I dislike the term because the Patuxent are not the Lakota are not the Maya. It's like grouping all European peoples together, saying that Hungarians and Portugese people are the same thing. Things can even be very different close by. A nearby tribe burned their dead. My own let the bodies rot in the open, then buried the bones in a fur bag.

I am going to drop the term "Indigenous peoples" but need to find a better way to represent "native" peoples respectfully , Doing research on Avatar has been a unique experence and I have found peoples opinions on who the NaVi change depending on there loction in the world and cultural connections in there family , There are a number of videos on youtube and I listed several in another thread I will leave a link to them ,One of the reasons I brought up this topic there is a elder who is intrested in how our people connect with the film, she says from what she has heard there is something unique happening and I would have to aggre at least in part on that fact, that (some) people where deeply moved by what they saw and built a very strong connection, but she wonders how they connect and relate to what they saw and than Relate to the mirrored issues in the real world, because Avatar was built from the ground up from quite real mirrored issues on earth it can build powerfull emotional connections, James Cameron has a video as well where he talks about this story telling tool, I am well aware from history that native peoples do not allways present the pure image Avatar presents but as a whole we as a people in understanding the roots behind Avatars conections could learn some very powerfull lifes lessons if they where intrested (I know I sure have) and James Cameron is suprised that people dont allways see where the roots of the story came from. (this impacts the questions they ask themselves) this is part of my intrest on this topic.here are the links to another thread that speaks on Avatars (posable) spiitual connections and has several video links I placed there,please rember they are seeing things from there cultural perspective.
http://www.avatar-forums.com/na-vi-culture-language/navi-spirituality-religion-4705/3/
Here is JC speaking on why he created the film. James Cameron Talks About the Take Away Message from Avatar - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jDQYtkkArg)
Thank you for sharing your opinion.

[Ximphron]

One thing I noticed Cameron bringing up was the idea of many people believing that the Earth was made for us. This is a major belief diference between many Native American belief systems and those originating in the middle east. This ties in with the alternate views of man as part of nature vs man as separate from nature. More than any other thing the story of Avatar reminded me of the exploitation of Africa. While the Americas were mostly settlement and resulting conflicts, the exploitation of Africa was at a point where European powers had already established themselves and were focussed on taking valuables at African peoples' expense.

While the Na'vi don't truly accurately represent any people of Earth, they sort of act as many people's ideal life, something we should aspire to be.

I must admit that I actually got very little, if any, life-changing experiences out of Avatar, and I don't think it really changed my beliefs or taught me much. I can understand the importance of it for many people though, and while the points of the movie did little do me I cannot deny it's power. I think the destruction of the hometree was by far the most powerful to me, and probably to many others i'm guessing because it mirrored several horrors of history.

Perhaps Avatar has changed my life in a way though, as it has helped me find many others who have ideas in common with me and people with whom I can discuss many things.

[allrock123]

One thing I noticed Cameron bringing up was the idea of many people believing that the Earth was made for us. This is a major belief diference between many Native American belief systems and those originating in the middle east. This ties in with the alternate views of man as part of nature vs man as separate from nature. More than any other thing the story of Avatar reminded me of the exploitation of Africa. While the Americas were mostly settlement and resulting conflicts, the exploitation of Africa was at a point where European powers had already established themselves and were focussed on taking valuables at African peoples' expense.

While the Na'vi don't truly accurately represent any people of Earth, they sort of act as many people's ideal life, something we should aspire to be.

I must admit that I actually got very little, if any, life-changing experiences out of Avatar, and I don't think it really changed my beliefs or taught me much. I can understand the importance of it for many people though, and while the points of the movie did little do me I cannot deny it's power. I think the destruction of the hometree was by far the most powerful to me, and probably to many others i'm guessing because it mirrored several horrors of history.

Perhaps Avatar has changed my life in a way though, as it has helped me find many others who have ideas in common with me and people with whom I can discuss many things.

If Anything Avatar as taught me,Its open your eyes in the real world and there is a lot of amasing things to see and learn,(my main question is why did I not see this before ) Its very true the NaVi are an "imperfect mirror" and some say a Cultural Illusion, and there is probbly a lot we dont know about there past history,(a hole JC plans to fill wilth a book) the closest example I have is this "The NaVi are the native peoples of Pandora by Mirrored example (and you will see the term "mirror" used a lot in Avatar) they just so happen to share a huge number of mirrored connections with Native peoples on earth, look into where those connections come from and your View on the world expands as well , one issue with Avatar I see a lot is people see the film open there eyes to its issues mirrored in the real world and then get depressed over our past treatment of native peoples (which is a very real issue and is good to be aware of course ) I spoke to a native american teacher on this issue , and what he said realy took me by suprise he was very upset over the fact that our people where beating themselves over an issue from the past, he for the most part said how pointless can people get yet we humans are very good at getting caught in a loop like this "being aware" of this fact is a good lifes lesson and can prevent its suffering, the issues in the present are another matter and many native peoples are very impressed with Avatars ability to open some peoples eyes of course they are usuly in parts of there world where there homes or way of life is threatened "now" usuly by so called "progress" , most native peoples see the world in a diffrent light from us , "We own the land" , to them "The land owns them" or to own land is an alien comcept once again a mirror image, Have you seen other threads where cultural connections are talked about, in the thread above there is a link to Navi spirituality and there are very strong african connections in Avatar(presented formlessly) one of the most powerfull is the concept of "Ma'at" and is spoken of in the link above and here" Maat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maat) (again many african people see this film from there culture perspective) there are a lot of others but be it known
the cultural examples in the film are very well researced and presented with great respect. as for Avatar being a life changing experence , It sure has given me an interesing way to look at the world in just researching its cultural connections alone I now have a broader view on how I see things and have meet a number of very respectfull kind people, I am not sure other people would go through the trouble of doing this , but for me its been an intersting journey. Avatar is a very rare film in the fact it questions its creator and if one takes an honest look , you will see just how deeply peoples all around the world relate to this film and in many cases just how threatened corporations and goverments feel that have bad enviromental and human rights operations but thats another subject.
Avatar does have its faults do we realy beleve humans could be so heartless in the future, the science group (the humans that can see) are very aware of the issues the Navi people face , the fact the rest are all blind is a very hard sell but in scope of things they are blinded by the "Value" of the mineral so it is at least posable.

[Suzy]

Avatar certainly piqued my interest in indigenous/native peoples, particularly those very few still living a hunter-gatherer lifestyle and who haven't been "modernized" - who are sadly under threat by modern civilization. I saw Avatar as a way of drawing attention to their plight, which it has to some extent. It's led me to question a lot about how supposedly "progressive" our civilization is. This and similar Avatar forums are the only places I can talk about such things!

[allrock123]

Avatar certainly piqued my interest in indigenous/native peoples, particularly those very few still living a hunter-gatherer lifestyle and who haven't been "modernized" - who are sadly under threat by modern civilization. I saw Avatar as a way of drawing attention to their plight, which it has to some extent. It's led me to question a lot about how supposedly "progressive" our civilization is. This and similar Avatar forums are the only places I can talk about such things!

The film sure has inspired many people to ask some very deep questions about the direction we are all headed , I have a lot of respect for that fact, I have been watching a documentery series called 8th Fire "its time"
shown on CBC Canada its a series about Canada's first nations peoples reaching out to the world and yes there past history is quite upsetting as well, but this series is also about how native peoples are seen "now" and the issues they face "today" what is the 8th fire ? 8TH Fire draws from an Anishinaabe prophecy that declares now is the time for Aboriginal peoples and the settler community to come together and build the '8TH Fire' of justice and harmony. so its a coming together of native and non-native peoples. CBC - 8th Fire - Home (http://www.cbc.ca/doczone/8thfire/) the anoying thing about CBC content is they dont have broadcast rights to show it on the web in the United States (and posably other countrys outside Canada) there are a number of clips on youtube be aware not all of them are directly from the Doc Zone documentary but many have the same meaning.
if intrested you can find them there. Avatar forums is a great community that speaks on many very important issues in todays world, I have much respect for this community
and hope it brings real change and awareness in our place to the world.

[allrock123]

I thought I would like to share a few pictures from Avatar behind the scenes, its the new zealand stunt crew presenting James Cameron with a Haka dance and and then handing him the Taiaha spear (these are both cultural examples from the Maori people of New Zealand) This is a gesture of thanks and comes from two points , they wanted to thank him for chosing to film the stunts in New Zealand But the second point is intresting they wanted to thank him for helping them reconnect with there own culture , over the past several days I have taken the time to look at the content on the collectors edition on the film , it sure gives one a lot of respect in just how much effort went into making this film. its very likely at least in part examples of Maori culture also play a role in Avatar.

[allrock123]

There is one thing about the Film I think often slips by unnoticied , Avatar has a large number of refrences to "Ancesters" in native cultures the world over Ancesters , (Some of whom are burryed under Sacred Trees) are part of peoples day to day lives
and are allways held in deep respect, Many medicine men or shaman use Ancestral healing as a part of there duty to the native community , In speaking with people who have experenced Avatar Sadness syndrone, there is often talk of a fealing of being Held accountabe for the actions of there past ancesters in there treatment of native peoples, this forms in "some" a powerful emotive connection that drives change in there lives,