Anyone else root for the humans?

[Pwnzerfaust]

So I found myself hoping the humans would win from the first moment to the last. It's clearly not what was intended, however it was impossible for me to sympathize with the Na'Vi. I suppose it was because they weren't human--and I'm an unrepentant human supremacist.

I suppose it's not unusual for me to root for the so-called "bad guys". I loved the Empire in the Star Wars trilogy (the real one--pay no attention to the prequels, I prefer to pretend they didn't exist), and the same seems to hold true in Avatar. The humans were just superior in every way. Their technology was amazing, the characters were more sympathetic, the women were hotter...

The only downside was their atrocious failure to use proper military tactics. I suppose this is a failing that all the allegedly competent bad guys have in movies. Take my earlier example of Star Wars. The Empire, and the Stormtroopers themselves, are built up in early scenes to be these incredibly proficient badass killing machines. The opening scene sees them storming an incredibly tight bottleneck and absolutely slaughtering the defending rabble--er, excuse me, Rebels--with minimal casualties.

Later, however, as the heroes are running amok through the death star, they have similar accuracy to a 15th-century arquebusier.

A similar failing occurred in Avatar. Why in the world would the humans fly their gigantic shuttle so low and leave themselves so vulnerable? It's silly. They could have released the bomb from ten kilometers in the sky. Oh, you say, but their electronics were messed up! And that, my friends, is what old manual bombardier sights would be useful for. Are you telling me that in the vast database the main compound surely has, there's nothing to help them devise a non-electronic bomb sight using the myriad parts they have laying about?

Just fly your gigantic shuttle out of the reach of the Space Pterodactyls and drop the thing on the fancy tree. Boom headshot and the war's over, right? But no. In order to help the Good Guys win, they just have to be utterly retarded about it.

Honestly? I hope the sequel consists of the humans coming back with a solar sail ship loaded down with nuclear warheads, and that they threaten to glass the planet if Na'vi don't stop being uppity little girls--and then follow through when they inevitably resist.

[Foxhound]

I supported the humans as well. However you should be careful what you say on this form or you will get flamed! Now about the RDA tactics. That has been talked to death over. Trust me. The general thought is that.
1 Manual Bomb sights are very unreliable. Thats why in world war two they dropped hundreds of bombs and killed thousands of civilians trying to hit one factory.
2 The bomb had no precision as it was two guys pushing it out the back.
3 Quaritch had no reason to expect a massive Na-vi army and all out war as he was a security contractor and had not needed to drop many bombs before.
4 Quaritch had won until Eywa showed up and Spammed Banshees.
5 To my knowledge Darth Vader wanted Luke and company to escape.
6 They would not need to glass the planet all it would take is a couple nukes.
7 They would not even need nukes. If they are officially at war then the restraints that held them back last time will no longer be in effect and they can just strike the new home tree and cut down the fleeing survivors.
8 I do agree that the next movie will probably have the humans returning in grand invasion style.

[Scott]

Why do I feel like I just read something written by Rick Perry. The 3 ways I would attack the Na'vi....umm...Opps.

[Foxhound]

Why do I feel like I just read something written by Rick Perry. The 3 ways I would attack the Na'vi....umm...Opps.
Were you talking about my post? Because if you were i will reword it as soon as possible.

[Scott]

Were you talking about my post? Because if you were i will reword it as soon as possible.

Actually, I was talking about the original poster, but seeing how you supported Quaritch too let me just add; when Neytiri sank an arrow into his(Quaritch)chest I felt profound joy. He was a bully and an a$$hole. He was a liar and a brown-noser looking to make a lot of cash and reputation at any cost. He abandoned everything a real marine defines as sacred. He died a villain.

['upxare]

It's obvious that Quaritch has de facto won the military operation to engage his enemy, the na'vis. To be honest, and I weren't supporting the humans (alone for their greedy reason to be on Pandora), I was wondering why Quaritch ordered his attack force to operate in such low altitudes, especially in the Hallelujah Mountains where vision was still good enough to mark targets from high altitude. In my fanfic I'm still writing, Quaritch (he's back :D) is going to use other tactics than in the movie. Tactics which would be more or less realistic, given the facts on ground. The result of that isn't yet clear. However, on Pandora there's Ey'wa and against her grace no one can prosper on Pandora easily. A large invasion force wouldn't do much, as Ey'wa could send even larger numbers or predators to engage them. It would be finally a war RDA vs Ey'wa which would make the plot as boring as a cartoon for toddlers.

[Sanjwale]

and I weren't supporting the humans (alone for their greedy reason to be on Pandora),

that is pretty much why I hate the RDA in the movie. even before we saw the real na'vi´s I hated the RDA

['upxare]

that is pretty much why I hate the RDA in the movie. even before we saw the real na'vi´s I hated the RDA

The sad fact is, that RDA actually resembles today's turbo-capitalism. Margins and Cash Flows are more important for them than living in harmony with our planet. But the overall sentiment starts to change. :)

[_Omaticaya_]

There's so many threads about this for crying out loud!, why do people keep making them??? Just making a different title doesn't change the topic... Go to the S H I T T Y skypeople section for this stuff.

Anyway, for the 7467850398th time, it's not about hating the fact I'm a human that makes me want the Na'vi to win, (as they did), it's simply the fact that those humans on Pandora we're nasty, evil, they we're doing horrid things to the planet, and to innocent peaceful inhabitants of Pandora. Therefore, how can you be on the side of killers, and genocide? I don't know.

[tm20]

only humans i supported were Grace, Jake, Trudy, Norm and the rest of the Avatar team

[Theorist]

While this is just me, I was taught that it's racist to treat other non-human species as worth less than humans. But that's how I was raised. So naturally I had no bounds to the human side, and thus wanted the Na'vi to win. Also, we don't have any idea how powerful Eywa truly is. I'll quote Futurama, where Bender finds God and god says "If you do too much people begin to rely on you; if you do to little people begin to hate you; but, if you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all." So I can see a God thinking that way, so my thinking is that Eywa may act the same way, and only use her power when she really needs to, and thus we have no idea how powerful she really is. Like could she assemble plants to grow under Hell's Gate that could carry the chemicals to make an electro-magnet that would destroy the base. We don't know. We didn't see her use much of her power except when she twice saved Jake with the seeds, and then when she was able to control all the animals into attacking the soldiers in a fairly coordinated manner.

[Foxhound]

Actually, I was talking about the original poster, but seeing how you supported Quaritch too let me just add; when Neytiri sank an arrow into his(Quaritch)chest I felt profound joy. He was a bully and an a$$hole. He was a liar and a brown-noser looking to make a lot of cash and reputation at any cost. He abandoned everything a real marine defines as sacred. He died a villain.

I completely understand and respect your views. I have listened to both sides of the argument and have decided to side with the RDA for my own reasons.
However regrettably due to my knowledge of human nature, getting into a debate at this point would not sway either of us due to our preconceived views, and is pointless.
(PS i don't like Rick Perry.)

Back to the tactics debate. That can be debated without turning into a flame war.
The thing i don't understand is why Quaritch sent in ground troops. That has bugged me because they don't seem to really have a mission. The Choppers dropped them off a far distance from the Tree so they would not be a fail-safe for the choppers.
Any thoughts?

[Theorist]

I completely understand and respect your views. I have listened to both sides of the argument and have decided to side with the RDA for my own reasons.
However regrettably due to my knowledge of human nature, getting into a debate at this point would not sway either of us due to our preconceived views, and is pointless.
(PS i don't like Rick Perry.)

Back to the tactics debate. That can be debated without turning into a flame war.
The thing i don't understand is why Quaritch sent in ground troops. That has bugged me because they don't seem to really have a mission. The Choppers dropped them off a far distance from the Tree so they would not be a fail-safe for the choppers.
Any thoughts?

Just a thought, but I think Quaritch may have wanted to kill as many Na'vi as possible, thus he recklessly sent in ground troops

[Porthos1]

It is likely that Quaritch dropped in the ground troops in the hopes of drawing some of the Na'vi away from the main attack, the bomber.

Guys, the movie was showing the RDA corporate machine as very evil. This was the intent; to make the company look as more caring about profits than morality. With the exception of the science team (who were manipulated by the RDA management), they destroy and kill as part of their business plan. I am not saying this to start a flamewar (debate) between the Human lovers and the Blue Monkey lovers. I am pointing out, though, that in this forum, you really are on the wrong side; kind of like thinking that Darth Sidious was the best thing for the Star Wars galaxy. I agree with one of the other posters above: this should go to the RDA section of this forum.

FYI, I rooted for Jake, Grace, Trudy, Norm and the science group we see in the background. They were Human and all heroes. I like backing winners...Go Niners!

[Ja'k Dawsiin]

only humans i supported were Grace, Jake, Trudy, Norm and the rest of the Avatar team


yep,i'm with you,sir....and i totally support the great People of the Omaticaya Clan. i wish i could help them with their future struggles with the murderers of the despicable rda/secops.

[SnowRider]

In my opinion, those who supported and/or rooted for the RDA/humans in the film (as opposed to those of us who rooted for Max, Norm, and the other 'good' humans in the film in addition to the Na'vi they were helping) are missing the whole point of the movie:

Pandora is right here, on Earth, and we're the Na'vi. Unfortunately, we're also the RDA. If we are to save our planet and our species from the worst excesses of our species, the Na'vi side of our nature has to win out. If it does not, if greed and short-sighted focus on profits wins out, we will kill ourselves, along with any chance of saving our world as well as ourselves.

If the RDA side of our nature wins out, we lose any chance of redemption for ourselves as a species.

It took a long time for us to get into this situation and it will take a while for us to get out of it, but get out of it we will, so long as we all work together to save ourselves and our world.

That is why the Na'vi side of our nature must win out in the end.

[Tsyal Makto]

^ Good post.

To add something to how the science team were good humans compared to the fascist RDA (and that's what they are, from what is stated in the survival guide of their de facto control of Earth), I've seen some fanfics where the science team became honorary members of the Omaticaya. Hopefully in the next movie....

['upxare]

Pandora is right here, on Earth, and we're the Na'vi. Unfortunately, we're also the RDA. If we are to save our planet and our species from the worst excesses of our species, the Na'vi side of our nature has to win out. If it does not, if greed and short-sighted focus on profits wins out, we will kill ourselves, along with any chance of saving our world as well as ourselves.




One of the best statements I've ever been reading on any internet forum because it's the ugly fact and the main message of the Avatar movie and the movement behind it. It lies in all of our hands to let the 'na'vi- side' win and if all of us pays some small contributions to the wonderful plant we live on, we're doomed sooner than later. For instance, I'm glad I could save three healthy forest trees right behind my garden gate from being logged by forest workers, as the wood was supposed to be shipped to China. In fact, when I was protesting out there (and later together with some neighbors), I felt like a na'vi! ;) And the trees are still standing. :nparty:

[_Omaticaya_]

^Good job 'upxare, that's a great story :nsmile: as Jake said, it was 'Something worth fighting for' :nwink: