I don't want to sound insensitive but...

[Kacajika]

Everything that happened is because James Cameron's imagination said it should be like that. That's it, nothing more and nothing less.

I will however say this, in the future, there will be a lot of opportunity to criticize the next movie if there are by any chance some possible inconsistencies between Avatar and Avatar: Part Deux.

[ScottWashburn]

Everything that happened is because James Cameron's imagination said it should be like that. That's it, nothing more and nothing less.

I will however say this, in the future, there will be a lot of opportunity to criticize the next movie if there are by any chance some possible inconsistencies between Avatar and Avatar: Part Deux.

You're not being insensitive, and what you say is true, but a lot of the fun of fandom is to speculate on the things NOT shown in the movie. Cameron couldn't include everything nor think of everything. That leaves the field open for all of our imaginations.

[Kacajika]

You're not being insensitive, and what you say is true, but a lot of the fun of fandom is to speculate on the things NOT shown in the movie. Cameron couldn't include everything nor think of everything. That leaves the field open for all of our imaginations.

Then maybe I can speculate on the next movie. If James Cameron is true to his message and wants us to believe that we are the evil and greedy imperialists that he wants to make us out to be, the movie should go something like this.

Opening scene: We see the Na'vi still recuperating from the near massacre that they suffered at the hands of the skypeople. We are reacquainted with what happened in the first movie through conversation and mental recollection of the characters. We get their perspective of the attack and so there are moments when we relive the attacks through their eyes. A year or more has passed and Jake becomes more Na'vi than human but he still has moments when he remembers his human family.

In the next scenes, we are reacquainted with the characters and their relationships to each other. There are some tender moments and some moments when Jake has serious moments with Neytiri and her parents. Some of the Na'vi are still suspicious of Jake, but he ignores it and there are catchy cliches and one liners that give everyone a chuckle.

During this time, we learn how they make a new home tree a place for everyone to live and the movie continues to progress with scenes of the Na'vi just living and let live.

In the next scene, we see the RDA recalling the sound thrashing that the Na'vi and Eywa gave them, but, not wanting to admit defeat and still having the propensity for being greedy, heads of the RDA decide to return to Pandora and recover the unobtainium still underneath the stump and ash that was once the original home tree. They discuss what went right and what went wrong and choose to send probes to scout the whereabouts of the Na'vi and assess the damage that may have occurred to the original base to see if it is repairable.

In the next scene, we see Jake and Neytiri flying on their , whatever they're called and they see a probe come into the Pandoran atmosphere. Neytiri is puzzled what the object is, but because Jake was a Marine, he knows straight away. Both Jake and Neytiri become concerned and immediately go back to the new home tree and Jake tells the Na'vi that they should expect another invasion of soldiers from the RDA.

When the RDA are satisfied that their base can be rebuilt, they return to their base and begin to restore the base to an operational status. In the meantime, more and more RDA warships are landing and they are bringing bigger weapons. At this point we perceive the danger to the Na'vi and we are told by conversation from the RDA execs and soldiers that the Na'vi will be given no quarter if they attack the soldiers and workers that begin strip mining where home tree once stood.

As with all movies, there comes a moment when the villain (RDA) and the hero (Na'vi and Eywa) meet face to face and they fight against each other. During the battle, the villain has the advantage and we see the hero endure some defeats until one little thing becomes the Achilles heal of the villain. The hero seizes the moment and the villain is once again defeated by the hero. Is this the end of the RDA, or will James Cameron leave the door open for a third movie? If it is the end of the RDA, who or what will be the next villain of the Na'vi?

[Aihwa]

RDA's not a military company. They hired mercenaries to protect their interests. They currently have 6 ISV's in service. 1 currently at earth, 2 en route to Pandora, and 2 still traveling back, and the "Venture Star" (from the movie) currently on the way back. Trip to Pandora is 6 years. RDA is going to suffer a huge financial loss when the Venture star returns empty.

They are not a state run company. They are a private contractor for the development of Pandora by Earth's government, and don't have access to military grade technology. (for 2154 of course) WMD's are illegal to transport offworld by international law. And building more ships is difficult without the unobtainium that Pandora provided.

RDA is finished. They will not be back.

[electrosphere11]

I find it hard to count them out completely. If anything, they will at least be visiting other nearby planets in the future, if not for a return on Pandora.

[Kacajika]

RDA's not a military company. They hired mercenaries to protect their interests. They currently have 6 ISV's in service. 1 currently at earth, 2 en route to Pandora, and 2 still traveling back, and the "Venture Star" (from the movie) currently on the way back. Trip to Pandora is 6 years. RDA is going to suffer a huge financial loss when the Venture star returns empty.

They are not a state run company. They are a private contractor for the development of Pandora by Earth's government, and don't have access to military grade technology. (for 2154 of course) WMD's are illegal to transport offworld by international law. And building more ships is difficult without the unobtainium that Pandora provided.

RDA is finished. They will not be back.

Except that they have a huge stockpile of unobtainium that they mined 5 years ago and are still making money with that. They already built bigger and more evil ships from other profits and just need to get them to Pandora to attack the Na'vi.

Don't you just love it when you can make things up because none of it is real?

[Vauktu]

This may sound biased, but I find it unlikely that James Cameron will allow for any inconsistencies in the second movie. He is known for being a perfectionist and driving his workers to doing things most directors wouldn't even consider doing. He knows there's high expectations for the sequel. He has mentioned before that he will not start working on a sequel until he has a story that he thinks will exceed the first.

[Aihwa]

Except that they have a huge stockpile of unobtainium that they mined 5 years ago and are still making money with that. They already built bigger and more evil ships from other profits and just need to get them to Pandora to attack the Na'vi.

Don't you just love it when you can make things up because none of it is real?



All things are governed my a semblance of logic and reality. The costs to run a mining operation on another world would be astronomical, only doable because of the monstrous profits provided by unobtaininum. They need to sell it to be able to afford mining more. A single unexpected interruption in this delicate cycle can spell doom for a company.

Define "bigger and more evil" More troop space? Wonderful, where are they getting the troops from? Not many people are willing to put their lives on hold for 12-15 years to go fight 10 foot aliens.

Second, they have proven, with this little debacle. That they are incapable of successfully developing and maintaining a steady supply line of unobtainium to Earth. I very much doubt the UN is going to be happy about this. I believe that if anything, their license to develop Pandora's mineral interests will be revoked, and the contract awarded to another company.

There is no way for them to win logically.

[Kacajika]

All things are governed my a semblance of logic and reality. The costs to run a mining operation on another world would be astronomical, only doable because of the monstrous profits provided by unobtaininum. They need to sell it to be able to afford mining more. A single unexpected interruption in this delicate cycle can spell doom for a company.

Define "bigger and more evil" More troop space? Wonderful, where are they getting the troops from? Not many people are willing to put their lives on hold for 12-15 years to go fight 10 foot aliens.

Second, they have proven, with this little debacle. That they are incapable of successfully developing and maintaining a steady supply line of unobtainium to Earth. I very much doubt the UN is going to be happy about this. I believe that if anything, their license to develop Pandora's mineral interests will be revoked, and the contract awarded to another company.

There is no way for them to win logically.

But if we as humans are who James Cameron paints us to be, then the RDA execs will persuade the UN through deceit and subterfuge, to fund their return to Pandora and the fog of greed will overcome logic and the countries of the world will fund the project.

[Aihwa]

But if we as humans are who James Cameron paints us to be, then the RDA execs will persuade the UN to fund their return to Pandora and the fog of greed will overcome logic and the countries of the world will fund the project.


Right. They'll give the morons who messed up the first project, more money to do it again. Makes perfect sense.

/end sarcasm

There are most likely plenty of other companies ready and willing to assume the contract. And of course, they would have learned from the RDA's little adventure, that force cannot be used effectively on Pandora.

[Kacajika]

Right. They'll give the morons who messed up the first project, more money to do it again. Makes perfect sense.

/end sarcasm

There are most likely plenty of other companies ready and willing to assume the contract. And of course, they would have learned from the RDA's little adventure, that force cannot be used effectively on Pandora.

Do you not realize that governments are the definition of insanity? And do you not realize that insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results? Not only is it possible in fantasy, there are examples of real governments doing the same thing over again and expecting different results.

[Aihwa]

If another company say's they can provide the same service, with better results, for the same or lesser cost. They'll get the job.

[Kacajika]

If another company say's they can provide the same service, with better results, for the same or lesser cost. They'll get the job.

Okay, I will agree that it may not be the RDA. But they will be RDA'ish.

[Aihwa]

Lessons of the past. Since the RDA got completley roflstomped, obviously, brute force will not work. So therefore, reasoning would be the next logical choice.

[Devourment]

James Cameron doesn't want to make out all humans to be greedy evil people, he wants us to realize who these people are and stop electing them to office 50% of the time.

Glad we cleared that up.

[Kacajika]

James Cameron doesn't want to make out all humans to be greedy evil people, he wants us to realize who these people are and stop electing them to office 50% of the time.

Glad we cleared that up.

Please answer this question for me then. Who exactly does James Cameron think are the greedy evil people? I think that maybe I'm confused. Is it the people who grow trees and cut them down for lumber? Is it the people who drill for oil? Perhaps it's the people who find a place rich in coal and dig mines for it. Or maybe it's the people who mine salt, iron, copper, or any number of other valuable resources that everyone uses everyday, and that includes those of us who are on the internet. :nconfused:

So who does he think are the really evil people?

[ScottWashburn]

Please answer this question for me then. Who exactly does James Cameron think are the greedy evil people? I think that maybe I'm confused. Is it the people who grow trees and cut them down for lumber? Is it the people who drill for oil? Perhaps it's the people who find a place rich in coal and dig mines for it. Or maybe it's the people who mine salt, iron, copper, or any number of other valuable resources that everyone uses everyday, and that includes those of us who are on the internet. :nconfused:

So who does he think are the really evil people?


I think Cameron makes it very clear who he thinks the 'evil people' are: They are the ones who are already making huge amounts of money but who are willing to kill people and destroy their homes and steal their land just so they can make even more money.

[Aihwa]

Please answer this question for me then. Who exactly does James Cameron think are the greedy evil people? I think that maybe I'm confused. Is it the people who grow trees and cut them down for lumber? Is it the people who drill for oil? Perhaps it's the people who find a place rich in coal and dig mines for it. Or maybe it's the people who mine salt, iron, copper, or any number of other valuable resources that everyone uses everyday, and that includes those of us who are on the internet. :nconfused:

So who does he think are the really evil people?


Its possible to drill for oil and harvest lumber without harming the surrounding environment. However, people who cut corners on safety and environmental regulations in order to turn a bigger profit, are considered evil in my opinion.

(now of course, there are some people who would consider harvesting lumber or drilling oil evil in their own rights, but lets keep this in the realms of the moderate, rather than the radical)

[Kacajika]

Okay Scott and Aihwa, who are they? Environmentalist crazies and the government constantly refer to these evil people to justify their radical agendas and more restrictive laws, so will you please tell me who these people are that are killing and destroying the environment for more profit. I know that government likes to use imminent domain to take people's homes and businesses from them so that they can use it to make more taxes. Are those the evil people you are talking about? Sometimes developers are given this property acquired through imminent domain to make new businesses that generate more taxes for local government, are they the evil ones? Aihwa, I agree that if someone violates environmental laws and it really does do permanent damage to an area not used for natural resources, they should be punished, but how do we define damage to the environment? Is it merely cutting down trees and taking away that picturesque Kodak moment? Or is it small amounts of oil seeping up through the ground from an oil well? Is it a company that digs a quarry to obtain marble, or granite ? Or is it a company that prefers open strip mining for coal over the more dangerous conventional mining. Is a company evil if they have an oil spill but spend thousands of dollars to clean it up? Some claim that oversight groups that over see the regulation of oil companies are corrupt because some of them use drugs and have sex with people they are supposed to be regulating. On its face that sounds terrible, but what are papers like the New York Times talking about exactly? Are the drugs they are using legitimate medications or are they illegal? As for sex, are these execs cheating on their husbands and wives or are they having sex with their husbands and wives who work in different aspects of the oil industry? I so love being out in the wilderness, and I would hate to see it destroyed because of mismanagement. But I am also very critical of people who cry wolf because the next thing they do is justify more regulation that restricts us from enjoying our natural world.

[ScottWashburn]

Uh... I was talking about Avatar :) Y'know, the RDA mercenaries who blew up Hometree and killed a lot of Na'vi in the process? Remember them? This IS an Avatar fan site, y'know :) As for the real world.... well, take a look at what's happening in the Gulf of Mexico right now. A huge oil spill is threatening a vast region and is already costing the jobs of a lot of people. Meanwhile the people responsible are trying to pass the blame and limit their own financial liability. They aren't very nice either.

[Aihwa]

And we're out in the open now. :nwink: icwatudidthar...


Lets talk real life evil then. Goldman Sachs, there's a lovely place to start. Selling a product designed to fail, then betting that it would fail. Does that sound good and noble to you?

How about the meatpacking industry? Ever read Sinclair's "The Jungle"? Wonderful book, really makes you appreciate government regulation.

Now do we even want to get started on monopolies and price fixing?

[Kacajika]

Guys, please forgive me because I'm simply being a defender of the United States and American business. It really really bothers me that the United States and American businesses are generally who people point the finger at and equate with greedy capitalists and imperialists when most of the blame should be directed at other countries that refuse to make laws that protect the environment. I know that Mexico, China, and Cuba aren't very environmentally conscious. Why isn't there more energy put into blaming them? Could it be that they would just ignore the environmentalist crazies? As I understand it, the oil well that just broke belongs to BP, also known as BRITISH Petroleum. I don't claim to be the smartest person in the world, but I do know the only people that are called British are from England. So how many environmentalists are blaming them? Please understand that I don't believe that everyone in the United States is Lilly white, but I think that there is a disproportionate amount of blame put on the United States and I won't just sit and let people do that to my country.

So guys, I'll make you a deal, I will be a good girl and not kick and scream on the Avatar fansite, if everyone will not bash the best country on the planet. If you can give a valid example of an American business that has truly raped the environment and stole resources from other countries, I will listen. But if a person throws out a red herring, or a strawman, and blames Haliburton, because they seem to be the most popular American company to blame, I will be here expecting you to qualify your statement with facts.

[Aihwa]

Now your putting words in my mouth. When have I ever blamed BP for the accident? Technically, they're not even responsible for it, they were leasing the rig and its crew from another company. Not to mention that it was an accident.

And your not "defending" American business, your just raging on an Avatar fan forum. So come down off your high horse please.

And personally, I don't feel America is the "greatest nation" in the world, actually, we're a pretty pushy bunch. We've fought a number of wars (oh, I'm sorry, "police actions") in a number of countries that dont want us there. Seem to think we're the most important country on the planet, and cant even agree that everybody deserves health-care for gods sake. There's a reason the rest of the world is fed up with us.

Want a nice country? Canada, that's a nice place to live.

[Colonel Quaritch]

Well at least you have the decency to start your own wars rather than run in behind the instigator like we do ;)

[Kacajika]

Now your putting words in my mouth. When have I ever blamed BP for the accident? Technically, they're not even responsible for it, they were leasing the rig and its crew from another company. Not to mention that it was an accident.

I wasn't pointing my finger at you. It was directed toward Scott.


And your not "defending" American business, your just raging on an Avatar fan forum. So come down off your high horse please.

And personally, I don't feel America is the "greatest nation" in the world, actually, we're a pretty pushy bunch. We've fought a number of wars (oh, I'm sorry, "police actions") in a number of countries that dont want us there. Seem to think we're the most important country on the planet, and cant even agree that everybody deserves health-care for gods sake. There's a reason the rest of the world is fed up with us.

Want a nice country? Canada, that's a nice place to live.I'm sorry that you feel that you are being kept here against your will. You can move there anytime you want.

Let's see, we fought in World War I and World War II. They wanted us there. We fought in Korea, they wanted us there. We fought in Vietnam. I read a history book about it and my dad told me that they wanted us there. Kuwait wanted us there in the first Gulf war. About the only people that didn't want to see us was the Germans during WWI and II, the North Koreans and Chinese during the Korean war, the North Vietnamese in Vietnam, and the Iraqis in the first Gulf war. Of course, according to my brother who is in Germany at the moment and serving in the Army as a Military Policeman, the Germans want us there because they are still afraid of the Russians. As for Iraq and Afghanistan not wanting us there, they had to have known what would happen when they decided to do what they did on September 11, 2001. If they didn't want us there, they shouldn't have done what they did. According to my brother who spent some time in Iraq, he met and got to know some of the Iraqi people, and they are glad my brother was there. My brother told me that the people that were shooting at him were not Iraqis, they were from other countries that wanted to control the Iraqis. So Aihwa, please tell me who doesn't want us there.

You claim that the rest of the world is fed up with us, yet we are the first ones they call when there is a disaster. Apparently they aren't fed up enough with us, because they shudder at the thought of us leaving the U.N.. Or could it be that they just want the millions of tax dollars we give them every year to fund the UN.

Aihwa, you have the freedom to move to Canada, I'll stay here where even Canadians come to get the best health care. Oh and by the way, I'm an ER nurse and we never turn anyone away if they have a life threatening illness or injury.

[madman]

I really hate political discussions.

[Kacajika]

I really hate political discussions.

Why? Do you not like defending your what you believe in?

Just a note, go to www.nranews.com and learn about freedom. It's on live right now. I only wish I was there in Charlotte N.C.

[madman]

I just don't have the patience. Oh and my wife and I are both members of the NRA and members of www.safetyfirstshooting.org

[Kacajika]

I just don't have the patience. Oh and my wife and I are both members of the NRA and members of SFSA (http://www.safetyfirstshooting.org)

Good, I'm so glad that there are people here that I can agree with. :)

[madman]

Good, I'm so glad that there are people here that I can agree with. :)

On this topic anyway :)

[Kacajika]

On this topic anyway :)


OMG, Sarah Palin is speaking at the NRA convention. She's so awesome!

[madman]

This is where I take my leave

[navi-gator]

OMG, Sarah Palin is speaking at the NRA convention. She's so awesome!

... must... choke back... vomit...
:ntongue:

[Aihwa]

This is where I take my leave



Thank you for not being crazy. >.<



I'm out. This has gone from a discussion to what I feel is becoming a troll. Good day sir.

[Kacajika]

Thank you for not being crazy. >.<



I'm out. This has gone from a discussion to what I feel is becoming a troll. Good day sir.

I'm sorry, I just couldn't help myself.

[rasomaso]

hahahahahaha :rotfl: jeez just chill, politics are boring, let's go eat bananas! :rotfl:

[ScottWashburn]

Kacajika,

Uh, when did this become about the United States? The United States is never mentioned in the movie Avatar. Not once. We assume that Jake was once and American marine, but it's never stated. We assume that Quaritch was once an American marine, but it's never stated. There are no American flags anywhere in the movie. The RDA is, apparently a multi-national corporation of some sort. The soldiers working for it are mercenaries, not American soldiers. The RDA, as shown in the movie comes off as pretty darn evil, killing innocent people and stealing their land just to make more money. But that's ALL I'm talking about: the RDA in the MOVIE Avatar. If you want to put some other meaning on the events in the film, well, that's your right, but it's not what I'm talking about. As Shakespeare said: "Methinks she doth protest too loudly" :)

[tm20]

hahahahahaha :rotfl: jeez just chill, politics are boring, let's go eat bananas! :rotfl:

i agree, why does all the debates on this forum have to do with politics? I couldn't be bothered to read the long posts on this thread so i have no idea what you guys are discussing but seems like tension is building..... Let's just all have some internet icecreams and relax then unite and try to bring back this forum to what it used to be :nsmile:

http://www.avatar-forums.com/images/imported/2010/05/342.jpg